Fertilizing Deer Plots

[Boeing]

Could I get some direction here....
Last summer I plowed, raked, disked and de- rocked (almost) about 2 acres on the TOP of my land and along the sides of my new road. In Sept I spread RYE, CHICKORY, CLOVER, ALFALFA and RAPE.
We had a few thunderstorms and they grew about 3". There were many areas where nothing grew so I spread MORE seed in Oct. There were several rains but the seed has just sat....nothing.
I plan on going back in March and am looking for suggestions. Should I spread fertilizer or more seed? Or is March too early to do anything?
Thanks:confused2:

 

[jk96]

Probably need to start with a soil analysis to see what you need.

 

[F250DSLPWR]

Just as above, start with a soil analysis. Dig up a little dirt from several areas of the field mix together in a bucket and then send in for analysis. When you get the analysis back it will tell you how much lime, and fertilizer you need to add to get the soil ready. Add the needed soil admendments and till in. Next, when you plant your seed you need to plant it at the right depth, a lot of times the small seeds get planted to deep. Plant them at the right depth and then go over with a cultipacker to ensure good seed to soil contact. The next part needed is rain or irrigation. When the seed starts to come up, stake down a wire basket so that you can see how much the field is getting eaten.

 

[teg]

...so I spread MORE seed in Oct. There were several rains but the seed has just sat....nothing...

How old is the seed? was it stored correctly? ...and did you follow directions on the bag for planting? I'm looking to do this next year for myself... so did you cover the seed (with straw or dirt) at all.

 

[Boeing]

I had gotten a soil survey the previous summer calling for nitrogen and potash. the PH was 7.6
I put down 300# of granulated lime that fall (two falls ago)

The seed was new in August.....I planted most of it in Sept. and mixed 120# of 10-10-10 fert. with it. That is the seed that did grow in about 90% of the area. The remaining seed stayed in the same bags for another month and the second half was planted with NO fertilizer.
In both seed spreadings the seed was just strewn over the disked dirt, not covered at all. All I have is a DISK and a SPREADER.....nor anything to cover 2 acres of seed with. It's frequently too windy to blow hay over and other coverings are too expensive.
My questions are actually what to do NEXT visit.....(March)

 

[mroldstyle]

I had gotten a soil survey the previous summer calling for nitrogen and potash. the PH was 7.6
I put down 300# of granulated lime that fall (two falls ago)

The seed was new in August.....I planted most of it in Sept. and mixed 120# of 10-10-10 fert. with it. That is the seed that did grow in about 90% of the area. The remaining seed stayed in the same bags for another month and the second half was planted with NO fertilizer.
In both seed spreadings the seed was just strewn over the disked dirt, not covered at all. All I have is a DISK and a SPREADER.....nor anything to cover 2 acres of seed with. It's frequently too windy to blow hay over and other coverings are too expensive.
My questions are actually what to do NEXT visit.....(March)

If your ph was 7.6 it shouldn't need any lime. 7.0 is neutral more will only make it more alkaline. Probably better than acidotic though. You need to be able to cover those seeds, how deep will depend on the size of the seed. For rye, spread it after you disk and then go back across with your disk just barely turning soil, more of a hit and miss type deal. The goal is to get the seed about 3/4 to 1" deep. then go back and pack the soil, a cultipacker works best, or a lawn roller if you cant get a cultipacker. Back and forth with a four wheeler will work but time consuming. Next spread your small seeds and just pack in. They don't need to be covered just good soil contact. If a good rain is forecast soon that will probably suffice to get your soil contact. You should fertilize according to soil test and work it in with your disk to begin with. Did you put in rye grain or rye grass? Also brassicas will work best in fall, not the spring.
Check out the QDMA forums for all kinds of info.
Have fun
Merry Christmas.

remember the Reason for the Season!

 

[Lineman North Florida]

Spread some rye grass where no seeds have come up and drag over them with anything you can come up with, old piece of chain link fence with a couple of blocks on top for added weight, or your drag that you normally use behind your harrow, anything to get a little dirt on top of those small seeds is better than nothing. And as others stated a soil analysis or ph test is invaluable and can be usually done for free or minimal cost from your local agricultural extension office or local farm center. Sorry I just saw where you had a soil test already, I missed that.

 

[mroldstyle]

Spread some rye grass where no seeds have come up and drag over them with anything you can come up with, old piece of chain link fence with a couple of blocks on top for added weight, or your drag that you normally use behind your harrow, anything to get a little dirt on top of those small seeds is better than nothing. And as others stated a soil analysis or ph test is invaluable and can be usually done for free or minimal cost from your local agricultural extension office or local farm center. Sorry I just saw where you had a soil test already, I missed that.

I don't think rye grass is recommended for food plot. I think he wants rye grain

 

[EddieWalker]

Was anything growing in those dead areas before you started? Some areas are just dead and no amount of fertilizer will do anything. Soil has to have organic material in it for plants to grow. Fertilizer will adjust and improve teh soil, but it won't make solve extreme problems. Sometimes you just need to bring in some good topsoil.

Eddie

 

[Lineman North Florida]

I don't think rye grass is recommended for food plot. I think he wants rye grain

That's funny we use it around here all the time in food plots, mixed 50/50 with Wrens Abruzzi Rye especially in wet areas, my point was to get something growing there, rye grass will come up fairly easily, so I'm not sure what all you are confused about.

 

[rasimmo]

We use rye grass for plots as well. It is usually pretty easy to get to grow. I top sead a 4 acre patch for my horses every year. I just sling the seed, no disk, no drag, nothing. It comes up fine. I know it would do better if I did more, but I'm lazy.:laughing:

You may want to get a soil sample of just the dead spots and see what comes from that.

 

[Dickey]

Put chicken liter on it, that will make a stump grow.

 

[mroldstyle]

That's funny we use it around here all the time in food plots, mixed 50/50 with Wrens Abruzzi Rye especially in wet areas, my point was to get something growing there, rye grass will come up fairly easily, so I'm not sure what all you are confused about.

Like I sad before go to the QDMA forum, the one entire section on just food plots, mention ryegrass or do a search. One of the main reasons is it will take over a plot out competing other desirable plants.
check this out, http://www.caws.org.au/awc/2010/awc201011531.pdf

 

[vabiker23518]

I have very poor clay soil in central Virginia. I had a couple yards of chicken litter delivered last spring, and was AMAZED at the effect it had...clover just exploded so that I had to top them with the bush hog...had iron clay peas that grew green and lush to nearly 3' tall....we had good rain this past summer and that helped....but I'm convinced chicken litter is the way to go!

 

[Boeing]

These are some great ideas. About the dirt (too poor to call soil) The crest of this ridge is where I am trying to get something growing. About one acre was planted in RYE and it was/is growing fairly well. Deer don't seem to like it though. The other 2 acres WAS a pine stand and I had it bulldozed for view and future building. That land is mainly clay, pebbles and extremely dry dirt. I've removed TONS of softball size rocks from it. It won't HOLD water, gets continuous sun etc. It DIDstart growing some excellent weeds all by itself; vine runner things and tall thistle thorny things. I bush hogged, then disked, then limed, then disked again and spread seeds....and went home. About 80% is growing albeit very slowly, the other 20% is still smooth (not tilled) hard packed pebbly clay.
I spread the LIME while waiting for the results of the soil test...
All the products that I buy are from the local CO-OP, I'll see if I can find some chicken poop and disk it in next spring. BTW, do you sling chicken thru your spreader......or just dump and push it around with the front end loader?
AND....one more question that I may as well ask....since the deer don't seem to like the rye (in front of the tractor) should I spray killer on it and start the digging, disking, liming, fertilizing, seeding etc. on that parcel too? Maybe I should just leave this hilltop in anything that grows and put small plots in and around the woods???????
Thanks for all the help.

 

[Oldstuff]

Boeing- I get my seed and fert from Coop also. Clover needs NO nitrogen because it actually produces nitrogen for itself. At Coop I get 0-46-0 and 0-0-62 and mix them together and spread at arate of 300 pound per acre. As was noted above you need to cover the seed some, actually 1/4 inch- look it up if you are doubtful. I have been doing food plots since 2004 and have had very good luck. A section of chain link fencing was noted for a drag- this is what I use and it works great. I have did it on a 4-wheeler and from a tractor, I drive forward and have another person sit behind me facing rearward with a hand held seed spreader and pull a 6 foot wide by 8 foot long piece of fencing with a 8 foot long chain with NO weight on it because of the 1/4 inch desired depth. My most recent plot I did as above and then pulled a 300 pound roller over it afterward to get a better seed contact with the dirt and I think it improved my germination rate. I do a soil test every year and have found that about every other year I have to add a couple of hundred pounds of lime, your Ph reading really is important. Good Luck.

Oldstuff

 

[EddieWalker]

There are two types of rye. Rye grass that is used in lawns, and rye grain that is farmed and used in food that we eat. I've found that quite a few of the premixed game feed sacks load up on rye grass seed. Some as much as 80%.

I've been trying different things and haven't found what they go crazy for yet. Some have said it just takes years for them to get used to it and to develop a taste for it. Other say that they have too many other things to chose from and it doesn't matter what you plant. And then there is the groupt that I'm falling into, that I just need to find the right plant for my conditions that the deer will go crazy for. Purple top turnips seem to be the best so far, but only after a freeze. They love hard packed, high acid red clay!!!!! Crimson clover grows good too, but it's not pulling in anything. I'm gonna try some different types of peas and beans over the summer.

Fortunately, its not an expensive hobby and I do enjoy seeing what happens.

Eddie

 

[rasimmo]

Eddie,
In your experimenting try buck forage oats. We have used ot for a few years with good success.

 

[Western]

Eddie,
In your experimenting try buck forage oats. We have used ot for a few years with good success.

Cant beat Oats! All though I have planted Buck forage Oats in 1 plot and regular "feed" oats in another side by side and the deer showed no preference to the oats. The only "preference" I did notice is the deer browse them less when the plant gets taller/tougher. The Buck Forage Oats seemed to stay somewhat softer when bigger , but not for the cost difference for me.

I have used allot of drags, from pipe to fence panels and the best I have found is 6-8 old car tires wired in a "pyramid" then a wire that loops over my draw bar.

 

[tpulley]

If your soil is as poor as you state then the soil analysis should indicate the amount of organic material in it. You can improve this with mulch. You simply dump loads of it (you can find free mulch in a lot of places) and using a tiller you work it into the soil. This will help improve the ability for it to hold/keep water in the soil.

You mentioned your ph was 7.5 This is really too high. adding lime makes it go even higher. What happens when the ph is too high or too low with many plants they simply cannot get any nutrients from the soil. Think of it as shutting down the pores of the plants. Your N-P-P may be spot on but if the ph isn't right your not going to realize it. You should look at getting some sulphur to bring the ph down to 6.5-7. This will only help you.

As for adding chicken manure, if you add this directly it is so high in nitrogen it will usually burn the plants. You really need to compost it first. Ideally put it into a pile and turn it over every week or two. You will see the heat rising from the pile. The nitrogen is actually the fuel it uses to cook it to a compost. For better results consider adding some mulch, leaves or hay to this compost pile. You will end up with a much better compost. Even horse or cow manure as good as it is needs composting for best results.

Once you get teh soil right Having a mix of plants will help attract critters (deer and turkey). Clover adds nitrogen and helps to maintin moisture into the ground. The rye, wheeat or oats love this extra nitrogen. Anything in moderation is ok. Too much of anything is bad. Adding too many seeds per acre is bad too.

Good luck on your food plots.