fill tires or not?

[SPYDERLK]

Self defeating... Foam would be too light... By definition...

I like the idea of the skidsteer tires that never need air...

Go old school with a GIANT metal rim and just 3" of rubber on the outside (Like the old tractors with metal wheels & no tires). Add weight to the rims when needed...

Hmmm....

David

Tire compliance is a traction issue.
larry

 

[JimmytheSaint]

If adding fluid adds 700- 1000 lbs to your tires, how does one remove them to change the tranny fluid?

 

[meburdick]

That weight total would be for BOTH tires, so you're looking at 350-500 pounds per tire. If you need to remove the tire, you're going to want to a) be working on a solid, level area, b) be very careful, and c) have help to move the tire away from the tractor once it's removed.

Putting loaded tires back on seems to be made a little easier by letting the tractor down slightly on the jack, getting the tire lined up so that one "upper" lug hole is aligned, putting a bolt through, and lifting the rear of the tractor back up. Apparently, this helps to line everything back up.

 

[greg_g]

If adding fluid adds 700- 1000 lbs to your tires, how does one remove them to change the tranny fluid?

Haven't run across a tractor that requires tire removal for fluid change, but that's beside the point.
1. loosen lugs
2. jack up only far enough to take tractor weight off tire
3a. remove lug nuts if so equipped and wiggle rim off hub
3b. remove log bolts if so equipped, and roll tire away from tractor
4. ensure tire remains vertical while off tractor, block if necessary.
5. roll tire back into place for reinstallation
6. jack tractor up or down as required to line up studs or bolt holes
7a. if studs, wiggle rim to get top stud through top bolt hole
7b. if lug bolts, align top rim hole with top hub hole
8. use this stud/lug to pull tire toward hub
Gravity will assist aligning the remaining holes.

//greg//

 

[k0ua]

Haven't run across a tractor that requires tire removal for fluid change, but that's beside the point.
1. loosen lugs
2. jack up only far enough to take tractor weight off tire
3a. remove lug nuts if so equipped and wiggle rim off hub
3b. remove log bolts if so equipped, and roll tire away from tractor
4. ensure tire remains vertical while off tractor, block if necessary.
5. roll tire back into place for reinstallation
6. jack tractor up or down as required to line up studs or bolt holes
7a. if studs, wiggle rim to get top stud through top bolt hole
7b. if lug bolts, align top rim hole with top hub hole
8. use this stud/lug to pull tire toward hub
Gravity will assist aligning the remaining holes.

//greg//





//greg//

The one time I have done that on a full sized utility tractor with filled tire. I was too stupid to do the above. Brute force and ignorance will prevail.. I was about 38 at the time.. I have "smarter ways" now. This sounds like a good one:thumbsup:

James K0UA

 

[SPYDERLK]

If adding fluid adds 700- 1000 lbs to your tires, how does one remove them to change the tranny fluid?

I just drain mine out on the ground when I need to. And refill with the hose after Im finished.
larry

 

[lilranch2001]

sorry to bother you guys with another question but... everyone on here says to fill the back tires for ballast and stablition. so i called the dealer and was going to have him fill my tires before i picked up my 3032 next week. he says deere doesn't recommend filling them because of the damage to the rims. will this scew up my warranty if i fill them somwhere else?

I refuse to believe JD makes such a recommondation.
It sounds like either an old time salesman who is thinking about caclum cloride or a person who doesnt have a clue about modern tire liquid weights.

Fill them unless you plan on just letting that tractor sit in a barn looking pretty or you want to end up with the tractor on top of you.

 

[msmud]

Perhaps the JD salesman recommended against filling the tires just as EVERY tractor tire manufacturer I have checked (Goodyear, Michelin, Firestone) recommends against filling the tires. Indeed multiple state ag extension offices make the same point: For best traction, ride, balance, and the least soil compaction and tire sidewall stiffness, balance the tractor front to back with the axle loads it will carry, figure out the proper wt percentage of the front and rear axles for the drive type (4WD, 2WD), add weights to bring each axle into balance, and let the air out of the tires to the minimum necessary to support the load at the speed you will be operating. This is the advice of the experts. Just because people have been filling their tires since WWI doesn't make it the best way.

 

[sunnyside360]

Actually, Goodyear did have an online procedure and liquid fill guide until they sold their tractor tire business to Titan. Titan now lists the procedure and fill guide on their web site http://titan-intl.com/files/Agriculture/Ag_DatabookWeb.pdf

Firestone also provides online info for hydro inflation of their tires http://www.firestoneag.com/webres/File/Tire-Info/TireInfo-Hydroinflation.pdf

Michelin also http://www.michelinag.com/Learning-and-sharing/Ballasting-tires

 

[greg_g]

Whereas I disagree with the recommendation to use CaCl, here's a quote right out of my 2011 owner manual:
"Using Liquid Weight in Tires

c CAUTION: Avoid injury! Installing liquid ballast requires special equipment and training. Injury may occur from exploding tire. Have the job done by your John Deere dealer or a tire service store.

IMPORTANT: Avoid damage! Cover rim completely with solution to avoid corrosion, but never more than 90 percent full. More solution would leave too little air space to absorb shocks. Damage to tire could occur.

NOTE: Use of alcohol as ballast is not recommended. Calcium chloride solution is heavier and more economical.

A solution of water and calcium chloride provides safe economical ballast, and will prevent freezing. If used properly, it will not damage tires, tubes, or rims.

A mixture of 0.4 kg of calcium chloride per liter of water (3.5 lb/gal), will not freeze solid above -45 C (-50 F).

Fill tubeless tires at least to valve stem level (minimum 75% full). Less solution would expose part of rim, possibly causing corrosion.

Tube-type tires may be filled to any level below 90%. "

Since RimGuard weighs the same per gallon as the recommended CaCl ratio, I went with RimGuard.

//greg//

 

[msmud]

Sunnyside,
Did you look at the Titan manual you quoted? Page 37 of the PDF "Optimum Tractor Tire Performance" says "Liquid ballast should be avoided since it has a stiffening effect that degrades ride and generally reduces ability to control power hop" and it goes on to tell you how to properly balance the tractor via the procedure I outline above. The manual later tells you how to do liquid fill if you insist.

Similarly, look at this Clemson university abstract from the Michelin manual:

http://www.clemson.edu/cafls/safes/...rojects/brannon_setzler_michelin_ag_tires.pdf

It says plainly on page 1 that liquid ballast is not the optimum recommendation. The Firestone ag manual is no longer available online but my copy said the same thing, and in the online abstract it discusses removing liquid ballast to solve problem like tire hop.

If you just do a search on my posts you'll see many more references to the above. It's clear that although the tire manufacturers may tell you how to do liquid ballast, their first recommendation is that you NOT do liquid ballasting but rather follow the Goodyear procedure outlined above to get better traction and balance than you can get with liquid fill.

This is what my Deere dealer told me when I enquired about filling the tires. He told me you don't need to and explained the above. I later looked up all these references because what he said went against the conventional wisdom I had read on TBN.

 

[sunnyside360]

msmud,

I will not argue with most info provided except you stated "Perhaps the JD salesman recommended against filling the tires just as EVERY tractor tire manufacturer I have checked (Goodyear, Michelin, Firestone) recommends against filling the tires.". I have never seen any authority on the subject that said DO NOT use liquid ballast in tractor tires. They may state liquid ballasting is not the most optimum method for reasons stated but will usually indicate it is the most economical way and then proceed to specify how to do it because it is the very popular and economical way of ballasting tractor tires.

Where I live, tractor dealers will automatically add liquid tire ballast when purchasing a tractor with FEL. The ballast will almost always be either CaCl or antifreeze unless the buyer asks for Rimguard, wheel weights, and/or ballast box. All three of my tractors have Rimguard in the rear tires because that is what I prefer for reasons listed previously above and elsewhere on TBN.

 

[msmud]

"Liquid ballast should be avoided" is pretty plain English. And, as I have listed in several posts, there are numerous published documents that say and explain why. Yet, what I find fascinating about this "Fill tires or not" debate is that if a recommendation is made on TBN re: this issue, it is almost always to do what the ag manuals and extension agency bulletins recommend against. Perhaps what is most interesting to me above all is how few people seem to be aware of what the recommendations really are. I have tried to bring them up from time to time on the forum--not because I am some expert (I am not), but because I was puzzled by my dealer's recommendations not to fill the tires and I unearthed the pubs that explained why-- and so has a gentleman named Art from NY, who really does seem to have a lot of tractor experience. But precious few other people on the forum have ever mentioned the proper tractor-balancing technique.

Filling one's tires is cheap and not dangerous; this is why this technique has perpetuated. But why don't more people talk about the axle balancing/let the air out of the tires/add iron weights at the end only if needed technique? It too can be very cheap. In fact, it was cheaper for me than liquid fill because I needed no wheel weights at all with this procedure, nor any liquid fill. Most importantly, it leads to a better ride and better traction than liquid ballast.

 

[SPYDERLK]

Sunnyside,
Did you look at the Titan manual you quoted? Page 37 of the PDF "Optimum Tractor Tire Performance" says "Liquid ballast should be avoided since it has a stiffening effect that degrades ride and generally reduces ability to control power hop" and it goes on to tell you how to properly balance the tractor via the procedure I outline above. The manual later tells you how to do liquid fill if you insist.

Similarly, look at this Clemson university abstract from the Michelin manual:

http://www.clemson.edu/cafls/safes/...rojects/brannon_setzler_michelin_ag_tires.pdf

It says plainly on page 1 that liquid ballast is not the optimum recommendation. The Firestone ag manual is no longer available online but my copy said the same thing, and in the online abstract it discusses removing liquid ballast to solve problem like tire hop.

If you just do a search on my posts you'll see many more references to the above. It's clear that although the tire manufacturers may tell you how to do liquid ballast, their first recommendation is that you NOT do liquid ballasting but rather follow the Goodyear procedure outlined above to get better traction and balance than you can get with liquid fill.

This is what my Deere dealer told me when I enquired about filling the tires. He told me you don't need to and explained the above. I later looked up all these references because what he said went against the conventional wisdom I had read on TBN.

Link "explanation" looks more like a study on the negative without qualification of how negative various factors are. Some statements are simplistic and should not be taken at face value. Also prevalent is assuming worst case of fluid fill vs possible advantages to some types of users.
larry

 

[lilranch2001]

msmud,

I will not argue with most info provided except you stated "Perhaps the JD salesman recommended against filling the tires just as EVERY tractor tire manufacturer I have checked (Goodyear, Michelin, Firestone) recommends against filling the tires.". I have never seen any authority on the subject that said DO NOT use liquid ballast in tractor tires. They may state liquid ballasting is not the most optimum method for reasons stated but will usually indicate it is the most economical way and then proceed to specify how to do it because it is the very popular and economical way of ballasting tractor tires.

Where I live, tractor dealers will automatically add liquid tire ballast when purchasing a tractor with FEL. The ballast will almost always be either CaCl or antifreeze unless the buyer asks for Rimguard, wheel weights, and/or ballast box. All three of my tractors have Rimguard in the rear tires because that is what I prefer for reasons listed previously above and elsewhere on TBN.

Agreed, solid weights are dangerous, and expensive.
CaCl is hazardous to the environment
Rimguard is not.
I chose Rimguard

:tractor:
:cool2:
:jump:
:scubadiver:

 

[lilranch2001]

what does Michelin know about tires anyway?

 

[Johnb212]

I am the owner of an AC B212 garden tractor with a FEL. After restoring my tractor which included many changes including replacing the front axle with a cast iron one from a IH Cub , I filled the rear tires with windshield washer fluid. My first trip out with my wife videoing, I rolled it on a small grade. I had a light load of pine branches on a pair of aluminum forks attached to the bucket. It happened so fast I had littlone time to react. There were other factors, the brakes / clutch weren't adjusted correctly but I thought I could get away with using it "just this time" anyway. You are welcome to watch the event on Youtube, "AC tractor with loader rolls over" followed by the video of righting it. I am not proud of my poor judgement, I did't post it on Youtube but I did give permission to the person who posted it so others can witness what could have been a tragic event. Neither the tractor or I was hurt, only my tail bone and pride were brused.
Please be carefull and reconsider adding approved fluid to the rear tires. If you fill them completely eliminating the air space the rims will not be damaged.
John

 

[sunnyside360]

"Liquid ballast should be avoided since it has a stiffening effect that degrades ride and generally reduces ability to control power hop." is the entire statement. I've been tractoring a long time (over 50 years) and have never experienced or heard anyone else complain about power hop in compact tractors. Regarding ride degradation, I am quite happy with mine with tires filled to 70%.

 

[lilranch2001]

"Liquid ballast should be avoided since it has a stiffening effect that degrades ride and generally reduces ability to control power hop." is the entire statement. I've been tractoring a long time (over 50 years) and have never experienced or heard anyone else complain about power hop in compact tractors. Regarding ride degradation, I am quite happy with mine with tires filled to 70%.

Well Dangit Sunny, didnt you read that fancy link that told all us dern fools not to fill our tires?
Me personally, I try to believe EVERYTHING I read on the internet.

Common sense is wasted on peoples like me

:thumbdown:

 

[joshuabardwell]

You are welcome to watch the event on Youtube, "AC tractor with loader rolls over" followed by the video of righting it.

I can't find that video under that name. Can you provide a link?