Filter Cart, Tank Magnets, etc. Pictures.

[SpringHollow]

Peter's suggestion of using filters to remove oil is a good one. I found some at this site:
Water Removal Information

Unfortunately, their thread sizes are different. If someone is building their own filter system, they might want to get a holder for one of these as their prefilter. I might make the change in the future.

Ken

 

[DieselPower]

KleenOil makes a very high quality bypass filter and filter carts. Instead of using a pleeted filter media they use a solid filter block and run the oil through it length wise and not from the outside in. It is a 1 micron filter that removes water. Kleenoilusa.com - The Kleenoil Bypass Oil Filtration System

 

[J_J]

Ken, A question you might have to consider is that when you add water and oil together, the natural state is for the two liquids to separate because of the different densities. It then becomes easy to remove the water, just drain from the bottom. However, when you mix in some detergent to the oil and water, it blends together and becomes an emulsified solution. I know that it changes color, looks like creme in coffee. The question is, can you still separate the water out of emulsified oil? I don't have a good answer. Perhaps some else has the correct answer.

 

[DieselPower]

The short answer is yes, you can remove emulsified water. In industrial applications (manufacturing plants) I have seen quite a few different systems for removing water from hydraulic systems. There are multiple ways to do it. There are filters that will absorb it, vaccum systems that boil it off under vaccum and I even saw a huge centrifuge system system once. When your dealing with 1,000-10,000gallon + sump capacity's they find way's.

Ideally the best way to deal with water in a hydraulic system is to prevent the water from ever entering the system. Desiccant breather technology has come quite a way in the past few years. Two of the best are Des-Case Des-Case Corporation and Donaldsons TRAP TRAP Breather . If you prevent water from entering a hydraulic system in the form of water vapor which condensates from the start then there is no emulsified water to worry about later.

Another thing to consider. Now that you have a nice low micron filter installed on your hydraulic system what is it doing to prevent dirt from entering the system? Not much is it. This is another key role of a breather filter. The micron rating of the breather filter should be no larger than that of your finest filter, otherwise as fast as the filter is filtering out the dust/dirt the non-filter breather is allowing new dust/dirt in. It's a never ending cycle. As fast as you filter out dirt new dirt is being sucked in. Prevent any new dirt from entering and the only thing you have to worry about filtering out is wear particles.

The next best thing to do if you can not prevent the water from entering in the first place is to use a oil with good "demulsability" properties. The better the demulsibility rating of the oil the better it is at preventing water from mixing with the oil. You can then drain the water from the system at the lowest point in the sump by installing a drain valve. Pictured below is a sample I carry around with me of what a oil with good demulsability properties should do. It is a example of the worst case situation, more water than oil. Notice no milky oil. If this jar was a sump all you would need to do is drain the water off the bottom.

edited: Oops, I forgot to add the picture.

 

[SpringHollow]

I have been looking into breather caps for the last couple of months. I am hoping to find one that can replace the existing cap, otherwise I do have an extra hole drilled in the cover already.

Can you get the oil you showed in a 10W40 weight?

Ken

 

[DieselPower]

The pictured oil is a 10W/30 UTF oil. You can get hydraulic oil which has the same demulsability rating, the main difference is it does not have the additives specific to a common sump tractor system.

If you give Des-Case or Donaldson a call they may have a filter that would be a direct replacement for your current cap. They are very popular and they have a rather wide variety of applications they cover.

 

[Bob999]

I have been looking into breather caps for the last couple of months. I am hoping to find one that can replace the existing cap, otherwise I do have an extra hole drilled in the cover already.

Can you get the oil you showed in a 10W40 weight?

Ken

I purchased this unit --the cap fit the existing fitting on my 1845 so I did not have to do any modification to the existing opening. I did have to cut the dip stick because it was too long.
Surplus Center Item Detail

 

[ponytug]

Dear J.J.,

There are two major strategies for removing emulsified water;
1) absorbtion
2) coalescence

Most of the water trapping oil filters use the first method. The latter is more commonly used in removing water from air, or fuel. (e.g. diesel) Both work.

All the best,

Peter

Ken, A question you might have to consider is that when you add water and oil together, the natural state is for the two liquids to separate because of the different densities. It then becomes easy to remove the water, just drain from the bottom. However, when you mix in some detergent to the oil and water, it blends together and becomes an emulsified solution. I know that it changes color, looks like creme in coffee. The question is, can you still separate the water out of emulsified oil? I don't have a good answer. Perhaps some else has the correct answer.

 

[J_J]

Dear J.J.,

There are two major strategies for removing emulsified water;
1) absorption
2) coalescence

Most of the water trapping oil filters use the first method. The latter is more commonly used in removing water from air, or fuel. (e.g. diesel) Both work.

All the best,

Peter

I understand absorption, but what kind of material will absorb water before it will absorb oil? When an oil spill occurs in water, they use what looks like a roll of cloth. If you demulsify something, do you get the original products back or will it have been converted into something else? For instance, if you have water in your gas tank, you can put denatured alcohol in the tank and the water is supposed to be absorbed, or so I have been told.

You guys are right about the filler cap. Every time I take off the cap, I can here that gritty sound. My filler opening seems to be welded in. Did some one say that there is a kit to put inside the normal filler opening. I like that idea. I am also thinking about non-detergent oil or a good synthetic.

At out level, as small time operators, if we get water in our system, and it turns milky, it is best to replace the oil.

By the way, Is the fuel filter for a diesel, set up to let the water sit in the bottom until changed out. Does it really filter or separate it out .
I look at it this way, water does not usually go through an oil soaked material unless forced.

 

[ponytug]

Dear J.J.,

The short answer is lots. The rolls of material that you mention below are typically a polyester type material that is water repelling, but has lots of crevices to wick in oil.

The filters that Ken found have a water loving polymer that repels oil, and absorbs water. I don't know the particular polymer in those filters, but I bet that they are similar to the materials used in disposable diapers. The filters can trap and hold 10-28oz of water.

Most sorbents physically trap the water. The risk in chemically reacting is that a big slug of water could generate enough heat to reach the flash point of the fuel.

Most diesel filters force the fuel through a fine filter that causes the suspended water to be pushed out of the fuel and aggregate into larger drops, which settle to the bottom of the filter. (i.e. a coalescing filter) Most diesel filters have a drain to remove the water. My pickup has water sensor to let you know that too much water has accumulated. The prior year's model just had a valve that you were supposed to open occasionally. (I always wondered when. "Hey honey, that diesel was too cheap, I think I'll just try draining the filter...") An old boat that I used to run had a small float valve and automatically dumped the water. I prefer the automatic dump, but it does dump some diesel as well, which is a problem for most people. (But not in bilges for some reason.)

The big concern with water in diesel fuel is damage to the injection system. In diesels, the injection pumps operate at high pressure and are lubricated by the fuel, so water droplets would temporarily allow metal on metal contact at high speed, and pressure, causing rapid wear. Lowering the sulfur content of diesel fuel is/was also a wear issue, as sulfur was a cheap lubricant, but interfers with some of the other pollution and particulate reduction systems.

Gasoline additives are a little different. e.g. Dry heat. They contain alcohol, which breaks up the emulsion, by dissolving the water at the molecular level. You still have the water in your gasoline, but it won't freeze, and you can burn it up in your engine.

You are right that water doesn't tend to go through oil soaked material, unless forced. But we are pumping fuel, hydraulic fluid, air, etc., which forces it into contact with the filter.

Does this answer your questions?

All the best,

Peter

I understand absorption, but what kind of material will absorb water before it will absorb oil? When an oil spill occurs in water, they use what looks like a roll of cloth. If you demulsify something, do you get the original products back or will it have been converted into something else? For instance, if you have water in your gas tank, you can put denatured alcohol in the tank and the water is supposed to be absorbed, or so I have been told.

You guys are right about the filler cap. Every time I take off the cap, I can here that gritty sound. My filler opening seems to be welded in. Did some one say that there is a kit to put inside the normal filler opening. I like that idea. I am also thinking about non-detergent oil or a good synthetic.

At out level, as small time operators, if we get water in our system, and it turns milky, it is best to replace the oil.

By the way, Is the fuel filter for a diesel, set up to let the water sit in the bottom until changed out. Does it really filter or separate it out .
I look at it this way, water does not usually go through an oil soaked material unless forced.