Filter Cart, Tank Magnets, etc. Pictures.

[ponytug]

Dear Ken,

How are the magnets doing?
Have you cut up your 1 micron filter yet?
How does your tank look?

Just curious...

Peter

 

[SpringHollow]

Hi Peter,

I have not opened up the tank yet to check. I expect to do so in another couple of months because there a some other things I want to do to the cover as well. I will not cut open the filter until I see some back pressure starting to build up. Both of these projects are on hold until I get a used mill (I will likely make my own filter cutter as a nice project to learn some machining techniques).

Maybe I will pull a magnet sooner and sneak a peak. If I do, I will take a picture of the magnet.

Ken

 

[SpringHollow]

As promised, I pulled the magnets to see how they were working. I was surprised at the number of filings after I believe about 50 - 60 hours (I will have to check).

Here's a link to the page with the picture:
USA Discount Generators - Standby and Portable Gillette Generators

Ken

 

[ldabe]

Nice job Ken! And great pics.

Could you tell me, where did the filings come from, and what is the danger to the system if you did not have the magnets to collect them?

Abe

 

[SpringHollow]

Hi Abe,

I do not know where they came from. I thoroughly cleaned the tank when I did these modifications - there was all kinds of crud in it including filings and what looked like welding slag. What I now see could be from the crud I could not access in the lines and cylinders or it could be from new wear on the machine (this would be real bad if this is the case). I did run my oil through my filter cart several times since the install but not in the last 40 or so hours of use since I had stuff stored where the tractor normally goes.

It can not be good to have this stuff circulating in the system. I have had trouble with my loader valve since day one (note: I bought the tractor used). I plan on taking it partially apart since I think there may be some particles stuck in the check valve.

I may be wrong but I believe most damage to things like wheel motors, etc. is from particles smaller than what I can easily see. I think I am more worried by the film which could be extremely fine particles.

Ken

 

[ponytug]

Dear Ken,

Unfotunately, crud breeds more crud. You look after your fluid better than almost everyone. That said, there is always going to be some wear. The pumps and motors have a large number of metal on metal surfaces. In principle, there should be a thin oil film to lubricate it, but there will always be bumps, cavitation, and metal fatigue.

I think it is great that you are getting all of that grunge out.

Thinking about your filter cart, couldn't you have used the PTO return line and the case drain line on the arms as the plumbing lines into the tank?

Thanks for the photos!

All the best,

Peter

Hi Abe,

I do not know where they came from. I thoroughly cleaned the tank when I did these modifications - there was all kinds of crud in it including filings and what looked like welding slag. What I now see could be from the crud I could not access in the lines and cylinders or it could be from new wear on the machine (this would be real bad if this is the case). I did run my oil through my filter cart several times since the install but not in the last 40 or so hours of use since I had stuff stored where the tractor normally goes.

It can not be good to have this stuff circulating in the system. I have had trouble with my loader valve since day one (note: I bought the tractor used). I plan on taking it partially apart since I think there may be some particles stuck in the check valve.

I may be wrong but I believe most damage to things like wheel motors, etc. is from particles smaller than what I can easily see. I think I am more worried by the film which could be extremely fine particles.

Ken

 

[SpringHollow]

Thinking about your filter cart, couldn't you have used the PTO return line and the case drain line on the arms as the plumbing lines into the tank?

Hi Peter,

I installed the plumbing in the tank cover for 2 reasons:

(1) I did not know enough about the hydraulic circuits and so I did not want to tie into them. The pump will generate a lot of pressure if there is any resistance to flow such as caused by high flow and cold oil.

(2) I wanted to install them such that the flows "scrubbed" the bottom of the tank where everything was settling - normally, you do not want to disturb this area but my feeling was that it was a good thing as long as I ran the filter cart long enough.

 

[J_J]

Hi Peter,

I installed the plumbing in the tank cover for 2 reasons:

(1) I did not know enough about the hydraulic circuits and so I did not want to tie into them. The pump will generate a lot of pressure if there is any resistance to flow such as caused by high flow and cold oil.

(2) I wanted to install them such that the flows "scrubbed" the bottom of the tank where everything was settling - normally, you do not want to disturb this area but my feeling was that it was a good thing as long as I ran the filter cart long enough.

Ken,

How would you know if you were cleaning the crud off the bottom?

About the only way to remove the old crud off the bottom, would be to jet the fluid to the bottom, but then you would only remove it from one spot.

I would think that if you put the suction tube through the filler opening, you could scrub the bottom on a regular basis and eventually have a clean tank bottom.

I think that in most situations, the heavy crud is allowed to settle to the bottom, and that is why the suction tube is several inches from the bottom, and the return tube is somewhere in the middle .

I have all the parts for my filter system, and one day, maybe.

Have you tried all the tricks, such as hard drive magnets all over the filter, and magnets in or around the suction lines for all the pumps?

Here is a idea I read about, and that is to put a magnet on the pressure side. The trick here is to insert a stainless fitting in the pressure line with a large magnet around it much like those fuel magnets. This way, by looking at the magnets, you could tell which pump/motor was producing or passing the ferrous metal.

 

[AlanB]

Very informative thread.

Wish I could add something but DP and other posters have hit the high points for sure.

It is interesting to see this equipment set up and running on one relatively small machine, I like seeing why you did it the way you did, and the reasoning behind it.

Sounds like you have it very well covered, but if I could ever help, please contact me, I am familiar with many of the process that have been hit on in this thread, and operate several of them.

Neat project.

 

[SpringHollow]

Hi JJ,

I manually cleaned the tank's inside quite thoroughly so there was no old crud left in the tank. There probably was old crud in the cylinders, lines, etc. some of which likely flowed into the tank after running it after the installation. I installed the supply and returns with angle fittings at the bottom to help distribute the flow through the tank particularly at the bottom. They are coming through the cover - not sure why going through the fill port would be any different.

When I first ran it after installing it, looking through the magnet ports, I could see the swirling action as I had hoped for. Tonight, I had to drain the oil because water got into it . The bottom of the tank was still clean.

I purposely wanted to remove the crud - I know it normally is allowed to settle. My feeeling was that if I could safely remove it, then that would be better. Since I do not run the filter cart while the tractor pumps are running, I do not give the contaminants the opportunity to get ito the pumps. If they get blasted away but do not get sucked up, they would just settle at a different spot. Since I have removed all of the welding slag, etc., I am not sure if there will ever be anything that heavy.

I have not used the external magnets. I did mention to Carl that I thought some of the 150 lb rated magnets probably could just be tossed into the tank and would likely work well if not as elegantly.

I like the idea of magnets on the pressure side of the pumps to see where the wear is occuring. I do not know if they would be strong enough to hold the particles in that high flow environment. I half expected my magnet in front of the returns would not hold onto particles because it was a fairly concentrated flow area but that fear was unfounded. I was hoping that there would be no metal on it because that would have been a nice spot to install the desiccant breather cap instead. I have to get the tractor up and running quickly so I had to butcher the cover a little bit with a sawzall (removed the cover from the tank) to enlarge a magnet opening so there is room for the breather cap nipple. Would have been nicer to take the time to machine it nice but the 12" of snow said otherwise.

What I am doing is definitely over the top but the machining is fun and the magnets were not too expensive off of Ebay. The filter cart was a little more expensive but fortunately got a used pump off of Ebay which helped significantly in keeping the costs down.

Is all of this worth doing? Impossible for me to say. How do I know if the need for a repair did not occur because I have done all of this? Definitely feels good to see the filings stuck to the magnet and know they are not going through the system. I have a filter cutter and will open up the filter cart filters when I replace them to see if I am catching anything there. I assume I am.

Ken