Finding buried pipe

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/ Finding buried pipe #141  
For all those so perfect folks that say this doesn't work. I also feel I should stick my head in the sand, after all the earth must be flat because at one time there was no proof it was round :D The earth is also the center and the sun goes around us, after all that is what the majority said. There are no such things as atoms,.,.,., show me one, with the naked eye :D
Yep that's it we have finally proven ourselfs to know everything. No sense in science any longer, we know it ALL !!!!!!!!!!!!
 
/ Finding buried pipe #142  
Wow, this thread really took off. One thing the people that don't believe witching works needs to understand, there are many people that believe it works. People that have college educations, and are very smart. I don't believe it works and my comments are not meant to make fun of people that do. I work around construction quite a bit and have seen a lot of people do it. I also have seen witching work and not work. The first time I saw someone witch something I thought they were messing with me. You know, play a joke on the new college kid. I now know that people really believe it works.

I have enough experience from my work as a land surveyor that I can walk up and down a street and pick out most of the buried water services, sewer sevices, phone lines, and electric lines going to the houses. I do this by observing evidence, such as low spots, manholes, sewer cleanouts, water shutoffs, telephone peds etc. I would bet my sucess rate would be around 75%. This isn't magic and that is why if a person is required to do this on an open site without any clues, they won't always fail, but the sucess rate is related to random chance.
 
/ Finding buried pipe #143  
Well I wish a water witcher would wend their way my way; we wish a well with water...
 
/ Finding buried pipe #144  
this is getting out of hand for a kubota forum. :cool:
 
/ Finding buried pipe #145  
I just wanted to leave room for "wonder" in the world so that we would not have to try to deny things that other people claim they have seen with their own eyes.

I wrote a defense of "Big Bang" and evolution, which will never see the light of day. Tom_H did such an exceptional job, I deleted mine. His version is very impressive, in that it is clear, concise, informative, yet broad in it's coverage. Excellent Job, Tom_H.

I don't want folks made fun of; it's never a good idea to humiliate people.
But making fun of scientists is only a good idea if you are bold enough to fight a losing fight, and don't mind a humiliating defeat.
 
/ Finding buried pipe #146  
I did come up with a possible but not overly likely reason why some double blind trials have failed. On those that gave know practices, maybe the sites were not conducive to witching and the witchers were allowing their knowledge to affect the action of the rods.

So, last night I realized I already have in place several installations that would allow for the double blind testing of witching. (I did say earlier this is pretty easy to test). So, any witchers in the area wanting to give it a go, I will give them $250 if they successfully pass the tests, they can give $100 to charity if they fail. We can work out mutually agreeable conditions. I do not care the terms as long as it is a scientifically sound test.

Let me know if you are interested.

Ken
 
/ Finding buried pipe #147  
Ksimolo, I don't think turning on and off a garden hose is sufficient. First it is a very small water source, Second it should be underground as dowsers generally look under the surface. Third what effect does the hose itself or residual water in the hose have? Fourth is there a residual affect in the earth left after the water is turned off? Fifth dowsing isn't about water, dowsers also find iron pipe.

It is difficult setting up a test when you don't know what you are testing for.

I would like to see a 12 inch diameter pipe burried in a graded field. Bring in the dowsers before and after and see if they can find it.

If you witnessed a spacecraft abducting your neighbor do you think anyone would believe you? If you also took a picture do you think anyone would believe you? If you had pictures and several other witnesses do you think anyone would believe you? Do you think dowsers want to subject themselves to ridicule?

Zeuspaul
 
/ Finding buried pipe #148  
...that would allow for the double blind testing of witching...

Why is it you are so obsessed with the the (ill-conceived) notion that any successful dowsing is only so because of prior knowledge?...it's a falsehood, if you truly believe that you're simply in denial (not the river in Africa)...

More importantly, why is it that you are so obcessed with only relying on "double blind testing" to satisfy your beliefs?...Do you not trust your own senses enough to realize when something is physically happening within your confines?

Citing a lack of certified scientific data to deny something that can be physically demonstrated and or performed by multitudes of individuals is ignorance personified.
 
/ Finding buried pipe #149  
You will never convince people that it works. They have to find out themselves. It is not worth carrying this subject on since most people don't believe it works. The way you present it, is, that it is a magical spirit that one must posses to make it work, and you HAVE to BELIEVE in order for it to work.

Don't you wish aches, pains and medicines work that way, that you have to believe it works.
 
/ Finding buried pipe #150  
It is underground, flows of about 7 - 10 gallons per minute. I also have buried pipes, electrical, etc.

The claim is that they can locate all of these things, not 12" pipes.

If it works, double blind proves it. If it can not work under double blind conditions, then the technique is not what you think it is but is based upon perceptions affecting how the rods are held, etc.

Really pretty simple. Why would a technique not work just because you are looking to see if it does? (and yes, i realize at the quantum level , looking can affect the test)


Ken
 
/ Finding buried pipe #151  
...since most people don't believe it works.
You got any proof of this? I think your way off the wall with that statement...If you ask only people that have *heard* of dowsing a much larger percentage will say that they KNOW that it works than those that say it's fake...! of course if you ask people that have NEVER heard of the practice you will get a much higher negative percentage...

...The way you present it, is, that it is a magical spirit that one must posses to make it work, and you HAVE to BELIEVE in order for it to work....
Where in the heck do get this bs from...? Do you even bother reading what is posted? jeeze!...go back and show me anywhere where I stated that the art has ANYTHING to do whit "magical spirits"...I dare you!
 
/ Finding buried pipe #152  
Ksimolo, I don't think turning on and off a garden hose is sufficient. First it is a very small water source, Second it should be underground as dowsers generally look under the surface. Third what effect does the hose itself or residual water in the hose have? Fourth is there a residual affect in the earth left after the water is turned off? Fifth dowsing isn't about water, dowsers also find iron pipe.

I agree that it isn't about the water and wether it is on or off. I have done, and have seen done, the dowsing/witching method used to locate not only water lines, but field tile, septic lines, etc.

I have used it in fields before, when there have been a tile blow out. All there is is a big hole in the field, I walk a circle around it so I know the direction the tile is running. I did this just to prove to a friend that it worked. Yes we knew the tile was there but didn't know whether it ran N-S or E-W or whatever. This is a field I have never been in and has been farmed every year and is flat. I was right everytime. One time, i got 3 hits around the tile. I thought it was odd until we dug up the blow out, and sure enough it was a tee. And when we dug up the clay tiles to repair the blown out peice, there was no/very little water in them.

They also cross where my burried electric lines are. Yes I know where they are, but it doesn't change the fact(as mentioned earlier) that I can feel them moving on their own in my hand.
 
/ Finding buried pipe #153  
I can use them bent rods to find things such as underground utilites, lost items And Graves. Ain't nuthin fancy or Special about it. What is real fun is getting abunch of eggheaded eng. (which I am one) finding out they can do it too.

Edit: The Only person I taught who couldn't do it,
was a physicist that had triple bypass surgery a few years prier.
 
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/ Finding buried pipe #155  
You will never convince people that it works. They have to find out themselves. It is not worth carrying this subject on since most people don't believe it works. The way you present it, is, that it is a magical spirit that one must posses to make it work, and you HAVE to BELIEVE in order for it to work.

Don't you wish aches, pains and medicines work that way, that you have to believe it works.

Oh no, I just went out and tried it. I concentrated really hard too. You're not gonna believe what happened! My wife came outta the house and clubbed me! She was doin' the dishes and all the spoons started bending! :eek: Maybe I was concentrating too hard? :D
 
/ Finding buried pipe #156  
You will never convince people that it works. They have to find out themselves. It is not worth carrying this subject on since most people don't believe it works. The way you present it, is, that it is a magical spirit that one must posses to make it work, and you HAVE to BELIEVE in order for it to work.

Don't you wish aches, pains and medicines work that way, that you have to believe it works.



JJ
Its not magic and you don't have to believe in anything, it will even work for a skeptic like you. I challenge you and all the other skeptics to bend a coathanger, you only need one, walk down the sidewalk the wire will turn on the joints of the concrete. Just don't hold the wire to tight.
 
/ Finding buried pipe #157  
Oh no, I just went out and tried it. I concentrated really hard too. You're not gonna believe what happened! My wife came outta the house and clubbed me! She was doin' the dishes and all the spoons started bending! :eek: Maybe I was concentrating too hard? :D

:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D
NOW THAT WAS FUNNY LMAO :D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:D:eek:
 
/ Finding buried pipe #159  
I should know better than to post on this thread, but I just can't help myself..

A couple years ago we built a new house, when the excavator guy was done putting in the driveway (first thing we did), I asked him about a test hole for a well. He asked me if I had a couple of old coathangers to witch it with.. me being me, I just smiled and said I'd see what I could find. As it happened, the wife was there on her horse, and she rode across the field to a neighbour's and "borrowed" a couple of coat hangers.

Jeff straightened them out, then bent a six inch 90 degree "leg" in each one. Asked me where I thought the best spot for a well would be. We've got a swampy area on the back of the property, so I started him out in that direction. 5 minutes of walking with the rods dangling slightly down from the "handles" and a couple of ground scuffs later, he told us the only ground water he had found was on almost the highest point of the property, and nowhere near the swamp.

Skeptical me said "I'm finding it hard to believe that.." Jeff grinned, passed me the rods, and said" You give it a try and tell me what you think" He showed me how to hold them, loosely horizontal with a slight nose down angle, and walk along. He said, " When they try to cross each other, you're in the right place..."

Feeling a little foolish, I started walking around. I covered the same ground he did with a few variations, purposely avoiding the spots he'd marked. Nothing, not even a twitch. Feeling pretty confident now, I walked across the "line" of spots. The look on my face was worth a million bucks, never mind absolute proof. Two pieces of supposedly inanimate metal that had been holding sweaters until an hour ago were telling me I was crossing some magical line in the earth... Honest to God.. it's an uncanny feeling, I'll tell you that much!

Watching from a comfy saddle, the wife's eyes took on a much more interested light. She hops down, says to me in a tone that brooked no argument, "Hold the horse, I've got to try this one myself..." She passes me the reins, grabs the coathangers, and off she goes. Found the exact same spot Jeff and I had. Her eyes were mirrors of mine, disbelief is putting it mildly.

Sixteen feet of digging later in hard clay and gravel, we watched a side wall of the hole first dampen at about the 10 foot level, then start to cave in as water pressure acted on the wall of the hole. We've had lots of water since then, once the seams fully opened up. The excavator bucket smeared them shut on the first pass. We might have found water most anywhere on the property, but I DO know we found it there. Maybe by coincidence, maybe not, it's in a direct line between the two neighbours' wells. An aquifer maybe?

His explanation of the phenomonon is that moving water creates a magnetic field that attracts the rods. It's why he wanted steel rods. He said he had no luck with wood, but had used coat hangers to find buried pipes over the years. He did say he had to flush water through the pipe to make it work in some cases.

Another neighbour used him to dig a well a few years back. They had dug holes all over he** and creation in the low spots, a lot of dry holes. He found a spot the others hadn't tried, on the very top of a hill on the property. I'm talking a decent size field, maybe 25 acres. The owner just shrugged and said "What's one more hole?" There was water there all right, enough to water 25 horses on a daily basis.

Do I understand it? He** no ! Do I believe in it? You bet I do...

Chilly
 
/ Finding buried pipe #160  
You are absolutely correct. Even though science has not yet conclusively proven how Quantum Physics and Cosmology fit together, doesn't mean they don't. On the other hand, water diviners have claimed an ability. In carefully controlled double blind trials, no water witcher has EVER been able to do what he claimed he could do.

Since 1975, scores upon scores of people say they have seen Elvis alive. This is not evidence. Never has there been one of these claims documented with fingerprints, DNA, voice, or other legally accepted evidence.

I believe Elvis died in '77, so some probably did see him alive in '75:D
 
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