Fire Safes

[Bird]

I'm considering buying a very small fire safe (or perhaps more correctly, a fire resistant safe). I'm trying to decide between that and a safe deposit box, but it's an awfully long drive to the bank I use that has safe deposit boxes. My concern is not with security and valuables; i.e., burglary, theft, etc. but just something to keep items such as insurance policies, vehicle titles, our wills, credit card and bank account numbers, etc. to have in the event of fire and/or tornado. And of course, I want something light enough in weight to bring up the steps into the house by myself with my two wheeled dolly. And I'd like to not spend a lot of money (wouldn't we all?). Here is one that Sam's Club has just for a starter. Does anyone have a better recommendation or any advice?

 

[MadReferee]

If that is the brand you want then I would go to the next biggest size. The 1 cf model you mentioned is pretty small.

I have an older model Gardall safe with about the same dimensions as the Fire Fyter larger size. It weighs about 350lbs, cost about $600 ten years ago and is rated for 2 hours at 1700F. Its 2+ cubic feet capacity seems small but all my documents and several other valuable items fit inside with no problem.

I also have a smaller safe (a little over 1 cf) that I used in my store for coin storage that has the same double key locking mechanism which is real handy if the electronic lock batteries go dead or you forget the combination /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif.

 

[Inspector507]

Bird,
Target (among others) sells one made by Brinks. I have one, but would not recommend it. It is so touchy on the dial, that I have to try it 3-4 times before I can open it. I HAVE to have the book with me when I try it. It also requires the key AND the combination. That may be good, but I really think there's a better one out there for me.

 

[PineRidge]

We use a digital safe that is lagged to the floor. The keypad is much easier to use than a dial. unfortunately I don't believe that it is fire rated.

 

[NY_Yankees_Fan]

Bird,

The safe you are looking at meets UL Class 350 C standard meaning it can withstand 1700 F for one hour. BUT the temperature inside of the safe can go as high as 350 F. Fine for paper, but not credit cards, computer data, photos, etc. or anything plastic that could be destroyed should a fire occur. For magnetic tape and photos a UL Class 150 safe should be used, for floppy disks and other computer data a UL Class 125 safe should be used. Safes come in varies hour ratings from 30 minutes to 4 hours. The lower the class rating 125 vs. 350 and the longer the safe can withstand a fire, the more $$$ you will spend.

When I evaluate computer sites or business owners most make the mistake of putting computer data in a safe that if they had a fire would have not prevent the loss of data, are Class 350 safes. Most safes that are more then say 10-15 years old are paper safes, not computer data safes. They maybe big and heavy and cost a lot $$$ but will not protect the computer data in a fire. Backing up computer data everyday and storing the data in a safe not rated for computer data is not a wise thing to do. The other thing I see all the time is the safe is open. Of course they all say I was just in it, and we would make sure we close the safe door during a fire. Sure while you are saving your butt from a fire you will remember to close the safe door. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

OK insurance loss prevention hat is off now.. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Bird the safe looks OK, a little small, use for paper only. I keep our important data in a bank safety deposit box. I feel that is the best possible protection for information I do not want to loose.

 

[Cliff_Johns]

Bird,
I'd suggest you make a 1 cu ft box and trying to fit everything you want to put in the safe into the box. You might be suprised at how little fits in that.

We went to a used office equipment store and bought a fire proof 4 drawer lateral file which I think was $400 delivered and placed where we wanted it. It hasn't moved since. It's very heavy. It's not good for plastic, but I take my backups to work and keep them in a drawer there. Probably more than you want, but I'm just tossing out ideas. The point is, don't rule out the used market. Try your local used office furniture places. They will usually deliver and place the safe for you.

You might also want to find out where the coolest place in your house will be in the event of a fire. I don't know where that is, but it could make a big difference on the likelyhood of your papers surviving a fire in a fire safe.

Cliff

 

[Egon]

Bird;

Does the safe have to go inside the house?

Egon

 

[NY_Yankees_Fan]

Bird,

Used market is a good idea. If the safe meets UL requirements for fire it will have a UL label on the safe with its rating. The label will be either on the inside on the door or door frame usually on the bottom, or on the outside at the bottom of the door. If the safe was constructed before 1972 it will have a label with A, B, C A= 3 hours, B= 2 hours and C = 1 hour and will be only a paper safe. If it is newer it will say Class 350, Class 150 and Class 125 with the hour rating.

Here is a link with all the technical stuff on Fire safes.

web page

Oh do not store valuables, $$$, gold, etc. in a fire safe if you are trying to protect it from burglary. Fire safes do not provide resistance to burglars. If a safe has a round door, it is a burglary rated safe and if it has a square or rectangle door it is a fire safe. To my knowledge they do not make a fire and burglary safe as one unit.

 

[r0GuE]

I've taken my I.T. data assurance skills home with me! Now that my family has switched to an entirely digital format for video and pictures, I take data backup seriously. I burn everything to CD/DVD. I view it to assure it is good, I make 3 copies. I store 1 in the house, 1 in the shed in a sealed tupperware container and 1 at grandmas. Data is finickey and I would not trust it in any fire safe. Paper at 350 will start to char but will be readable usable.

As for a firesafe for documents with no security needed.... Buid it yourself. All you need is gypsum board (that's all they put in the firesafes!). The gypsum gives off water when heated thus providing a cooling effect for as long as the water remains. That is why they are rated for different times and temps. I.E. how thick is the gypsum board and how many sheets are used. I would start with a BIG cooler (old metal one would be best). Then Build a several layer thick gypsum box with a graduatingly larger sized lid so it fits like a stopper on the top. Store it in a corner of the basement where there is the least flamable material.I might even wrap the cooler in double bubble aliminized foil insulation wrap (like AC vents use). That would reflect radient heat a long time all on its own. With the gypum around it, it could be made good for hours.

I considered building a gun safe with fire capability, but with the little ones around, who has the time to do that? But a simple fire safe could be done in a day for cheap!

 

[PineRidge]

Tom that statement may be a bit broad to cover all safes made. We have an Elsafe used to secure our handguns. The company is famous for manufacturing safes for the hotel industry, fact is we first used one when we stayed in a nice hotel in Florida and fell in love with the safe. The door is rectangular and I can assure you that it is not fire rated.

About Elsafe International AS
With the invention of the world's first electronic in-room safe in 1979, Elsafe revolutionized hotel guestroom security. For over 23 years since, Elsafe has maintained this position of leadership, continuously introducing new products that combine unparalleled strength and durability with technological superiority. Recently, the company became the first safe manufacturer to pass the stringent UL break-in test with the popular Infinity™ Collection. The company also was the first to successfully incorporate biometric access technology into an in-room safe. This Biometric safe was awarded the "Editor's Choice" Award for best new product at the 2001 International Hotel/Motel & Restaurant Show in New York. Currently, Elsafe products are installed in nearly 1 million hotel rooms and cruise ship cabins around the globe. Used by virtually every major hotel chain in over 130 countries, Elsafe is the most trusted name in guestroom security. Elsafe is part of the VingCard group. VingCard belongs to the ASSA ABLOY group, a public Swedish company traded on the Stockholm Stock Exchange. The group's expansive international network consists of 11 subsidiaries and 75 distributors. Currently, the group has around 30,000 employees and annual sales of approx. USD 3 billion. For more information, please visit www.elsafe.com or www.assaabloy.com.

TC-40D SS web pictures click here

 

[JDgreen227]

Bird,

We have one of the Sentry safes as illustrated but ours is a 2 cubic foot model...purchased at Sears about 10 years ago. I'm with you about not wanting to visit the bank to use their safe deposit box, although we have copies of just about everything in both safe and SD box, it's convenient to have the papers here and not have to drive 12 miles whenever we need to refer to something.

Ours is screwed down to a concrete floor in our basement and surrounded by a cement board enclosure lined with gypsum board on the inside. The one problem with having a safe in the basement is that the papers tend to absorb moisture, so about once a month I open it and take the contents upstairs to dry out. I've read that most safes should be opened once in awhile for the same reason.

Bill

 

[dummy]

<font color="blue"> The one problem with having a safe in the basement is that the papers tend to absorb moisture, </font> That happens with mine also and my safe is on the second floor of the house. I put dessicant in and still have moisture problems. Suggestions?

 

[MadReferee]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Oh do not store valuables, $$$, gold, etc. in a fire safe if you are trying to protect it from burglary. Fire safes do not provide resistance to burglars. If a safe has a round door, it is a burglary rated safe and if it has a square or rectangle door it is a fire safe. To my knowledge they do not make a fire and burglary safe as one unit. )</font>

Gardall makes a 2 hour class 350 safe that they claim is both fire resistant and burglar proof. Here are a few of the features:
--U.L. Two hour fire label, including Drop and Explosion testing.
--Thick 4 1/4" door with recessed anti-pry design. Safe walls are 2 1/2" thick
--Five active bolts that lock in 3 directions, massive 1" diameter round bolts that extend deep into the safe's body
--Center bolt down hole with hardware included for easy installation
--Bolt detent, allowing all bolts to remain retracted until closed, preventing bolt scars on the body as well as damage to the boltwork (models 1812-3018)
--Plush carpeted quality interior to protect jewelry and valuables
--UL listed Group II high security mechanical lock.
--2-hour fire label, furnace-tested to 1,850 degrees, safe's interior temperature was less than 350 degrees
--Solid chrome-plated handle with shear point to prevent the safe from being forced open by handle attack
--Independent re-locker and hardplate to prevent drilling attack on locking mechanism

You can read all about it here.

Gardall safe

 

[MossRoad]

We keep our important papers in the bank and keep copies at home. We do the same with our photos on CDs.

Off site backups is the way to go. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

 

[Bird]

Thanks to everyone who responded; gives me a lot more information to try to decide what I want to do.

 

[fishman]

While I haven't purchased on yet, most people I know use a goldenrod dehumidifier found here for their safe. It uses just a few watts of power and keeps your stuff dry.

 

[Soundguy]

I have a Sentry 1170 ( 1? cf ) Their literature seemed pretty good on it. it has hanging file racks. I keep the very same stuff you mentioned in it.

Soundguy

 

[Bird]

Chris, I find the model 1170 here and that might be the more sensible one for me to buy; cheaper and lighter, but rated for 1/2 hour. Today I've been looking at the S3110 here with 1 hour protection. As you can see, Sentry's own website has it at $204 while Wal-Mart has it for just under $129. Office Depot and Office Max both have the same model but $188 and $199.

 

[Cliff_Johns]

We have a few 1170's we bought before we got the lateral fire safe. They are nice little units, but I think if you're spending the time and the money, you ought to get something that will last a little longer in a fire.

On a side note, all the keys for the 1170 fire safes are interchangeable, just like tractors in that sense.

Cliff

 

[utah]

sorry if this is out-of-thread but I'n new and wasn't sure how to initiate a question to you...
If you are the member who posted a rave review of the Kubota BX2200 on 4-9-02... and if you still feel positive about the machine? We're looking at a used (150 hours) one and not sure what we would be getting into.