Firearms/NRA/Gun Laws

[RichZ]

Pete, your reponse wasn't posted when I was typing mine. Holy cow!!! I thought I'd be in the extreme minority. I totally agree with everything you said. Since we are practically neighbors, I think you are right, that we do live in a sane corner of the nation!
Rich

 

[Jag]

Jay, you sure like to stir the waters... One thing and then I will try to get on a lighter note... What I HATE to see is when some nut does something to make it to national attention, all our elected officals feel the need to jump up and pass some new law. I have always thought that the worst law someone could break was "not to kill an other". So we see a new law to make it more illegal. If someone did not care about the BIG LAW, why would they even be borthered with the little one.

I am a competitive shooter, shot on the University rifle team when there, and still compete. I am not much of a hunter, have done it and still do from time to time..... Yes I am a member of the NRA, and believe in the 2th adm. along with the rest of that great document...

Now for the funny, or I hope the lighter side..... While back in college, my future wife and the wife of my best friend came back home from a class. They were so upset and almost in tears. The class they had just came from had talked about how Pres. Nixon was a member of the NRA and how there was going to be a great war. Worst than any we had ever seen because he pushed guns.... I listened for a while then asked if you two even know what the NRA was. No, but it was bad REAL BAD.. I said that it was the National Rifle Assoc. And it had been around since just after the "war between the states" (it surely was not very civil). I said "Mary, my father is a life member, and your dad is most likely a life member, I had seen the American Rifleman on his coffee table." (Both of our fathers where WWII vets. At the time it was not cool to be for this country because of all the things going on in Southeast Asia.) They both just sat there with a blank look on there face. This had to be the best dicussion I have ever had with someone who disliked the NRA. They both learned not to believe all you hear, even in school.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Jag on 05/17/01 09:31 AM (server time).</FONT></P>

 

[WVBill]

Interesting subject.

I am not a gun owner. I've just never had much interest or reason. I don't object to anyone who wants to own a gun for a reasonable, lawful purpose such as those many here have listed. In all the rhetoric and emotion that often comes with discussions like this, though, I have not yet heard a response to the following question:

Other than "it's in the constitutuon so its my right", what is a reasonable, lawful purpose for a person to own an assault rifle?

 

[bpence]

This is one of those topics that is sort of like religion and politics. Everyone has an opinion and you probably shouldn't get into it at family get togethers.

I grew up around rifles, shotguns and pistols. I used to shoot pheasants and deer in the fall from the seat of a tractor or combine while picking corn and never thought twice about it. Everything I took went straight into the freezer and I still have a beautiful gun case made from deerskin. Early on I learned to respect what firearms are and what they are capable of. Shoot a watermelon sometime with a .357 mag hollow-point to prove the capability point. I've impressed the same learnings on all four of my kids (both boys and girls) and they all have a healthy respect for guns and are pretty good at the range as well. They have all been through hunter safey, gun safety, and shooting classes at a local range. None of them own guns, but I still have a small collection I hunt or target shoot with on occasion. And yes, I've taken care of animal problems a few times when necessary.

And, while learning to live off the land at my Uncle Sam's expense so I could camp comfortably in the wilds of SE Asia, I became a pretty proficient marksman and earned several awards during company and division shooting competitions. So, I guess I know about firearms and how to handle them, but that's one thing I just don't make a big deal about.

For the most part, I support the NRA as an organization with my annual dues. Living in Michigan, hunting and competitive shooting are pretty big activities for a lot of folks. I shoot sporting clays with a friend a few times a year at a local sportsman's club, and occasionally hunt pheasants and rabbits still. For me, deer season means a lot of guys in the woods with loaded weapons that only pick them up once or twice a year and scares the bejeezes out of me, so I choose not to deer hunt during the main season. I do hunt with a black powder rifle for the open black powder weeks, though, and have yet to take a deer with my little 50 caliber.

All that being said, I do agree with requiring folks take some type of training before they are allowed to buy a firearm. I feel much better around someone with a degree of common sense and training when they have a loaded weapon in their hands. And, if someone can demonstrate a need for a concealed weapons permit, they should have to attend some type of training if they are going to be wondering around in public with a loaded pistol of some type.

I'm not too concerned about my gun ownership rights, but would be seriously concerned if Michigan were to pursue laws like those in California and would probably become more vocal. Enforcement of what laws are on the books today should be the real priority, not constantly developing new laws and restrictions that are too complicated for anyone to understand.

Bob Pence

 

[rmacan]

I am a member of the NRA. That being said, I don't agree with or support all of the organizations views, but I am also a student of history and from my studies I would submit that the Second Amendment to the United States Constitution was not written to protect hunting, recreational shooting or even a citizens right to self defense from dangerous animals and criminals, although all those are legitimate uses of firearms. The Second Amendment was written to guarantee the right of the citizens of the United States to have, in the form of firearms, the means to forcibly remove a government that was unresponsive, or hostile to their interests. Without the means to, in the last extreme, meet the governments force with force, the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution are just empty words on pieces of paper. We've all seen it happen time after time in developing countries, democracy turned into despotism in less time than the initial revolution that was suppose to free them. Remember the battles of Lexington and Concord? The British light infantry's primary mission April 18-19, 1775 was to seize arms, powder, and shot from the colonists so the Royal Authority could be reasserted. It didn't turn out the way George III thought it would. If the common citizens had not had the physical means to resist the force being used against them that day, there may never have been a United States of America. "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance" - Thomas Jefferson.

 

[JayinNH]

Richs,
I think education is a huge factor in gun safety. I listen to my parents talk about shooting guns and bows in gym class. They had gun safety class in school, and was as common as basketball or baseball.Young adults tend to want things they can't have or don't have any knowledge about. I was brought up respecting the wild and hunting safely. I think people are forgetting the basics about proper education. Drivers education teaches people to drive responsibly. Only give certian people the right to drive and lots of young adults will be taking cars and killing people. But we forget that driving is a privledge and not a right (like the second amendment). I think the death penality and more strict laws on criminals will reduce the crimes with guns. There is a 30% reduction in robberies and crime in general in the states that have carry-conceal permits for the public.
Jason

 

[JayinNH]

Pete,
I just don't want the right taken away. I want to be able to protect my family and enjoy hunting. I have very stong opinions about the military but that will be another topic. I want to live like my grandparents lived. I would like the freedoms that our forefathers put in the constitution. I don't like to make trouble but if trouble comes my way I would like to be ready.
Jason

 

[fishman]

JayinNH,

I am a member of the NRA and Ducks Unlimited, among others. Probably anything else I have to add to this discussion is preaching to the choir, with some exceptions. I am pleased that all of the responses thus far have been reasoned out and it reaffirms my faith in humanity (or at least the members of this forum /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif.

I do feel the need to address something that RichZ said, that he believes handguns are made for just one purpose, killing people. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people who would disagree, including myself. For example, competitive shooting is a fast growing sport, and handguns are an essential part of it. Just like the right shoes help you play basketball better, or good shin guards are needed for hockey, so to the right gear is needed for competitive shooting. While I have not participated in organized handgun sports, I do enjoy hunting with them, as they present more of a challenge compared to rifles. Oops, now I've opened myself up to irate rifle hunters! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[JayinNH]

RichZ,
I agree with the trophy hunting statement you said. I have NEVER done a trophy hunt in my life and don't plan to. I use everything I harvest while hunting. The subject on pistols where you said someone who is not trained would often be the one who suffers is correct. I think that education is the key and don't think that everyone should have one. But I don't want the right taken away for those of us that wish to carry. I went to Unity College in Maine for Conservation Law Enforcement (Game Warden) I have hunted ever since I was old enough to, I think it was 6 0r 7 years old. I have extensive training with all different firearms so I feel that I am qualified. I think there should be a certificate program or something for individuals who wish to carry a firearm and have it good for the USA. Not just the one state.
Jason

 

[RichZ]

Fishman, I stand corrected! Just as I had posted my response it occurred to me that I didn't consider target shooting with handguns. You pointed that out, and you are correct. I hope I didn't offend any handgun target shooters.
Rich