Firearms/NRA/Gun Laws

Boondox · May 17, 2001

Rich -- I can sure relate to the relative utility of college degrees! I have a PhD in behavioral epidemiology...and work as a geek at a gourmet coffee roaster!

Pete

www.GatewayToVermont.com

Boondox · May 17, 2001

I thought -- given my familiarity with the M-16 while serving my country -- that it would be the perfect firearm for me to have. But every weapon has a distinctive sound...and the sound of the 16 gives me the willies. If you really want to see me freak out, fire an SKS nearby!!!

www.GatewayToVermont.com

JayinNH · May 17, 2001

Boondox,
I will remember that, being the owner of one. Great little target rifle. Cheap too. Sure does have a distinctive sound. I would rather be barking in the sandpit with the M2.Ammo is too much
Jason

JayinNH · May 17, 2001

RobertN,
You might want to check the ballistics on the 7.62 x 39 again. That rifle has a much greater range than 150 yards. The m-16 or .223 can accurately hit targets for affect at 500 yards. The .223 is a 55 grain ball traveling at a little better that 3000fps out of the barrell. My SKS (7.62 x 39) is a 115 grain ball traveling at 2900 fps. I have shot targets effectively at ranges of 300 yards. (No scope) I have the ballistics at home for knockdown power at the 100 ,200,300,400 yard marks. The SKS is a 30 caliber round but much more effective at longer ranges than that of the 30-30. Don't get me wrong the 30-30 is a great rifle.Was the AK-47 you had a paratrooper model ( short barrel) with a pistol grip. That would have some play on the effectiveness at longer ranges but she will still reach out there.I will post the balistics when I get home.
Jason

Branch · May 17, 2001

I think fear is the great motivator. Spread some distortions, whip the public up about something they saw or heard about on TV and you can get someone to go out and march, and carry signs. That night on TV the rest of us see distorted views of a couple nuts with signs and all of a sudden we have a crisis. People are afraid and the conversations begin the next day at work about how the skys falling. That's what happened hear in Calif. concerning handguns. Because some idiot stole one, killed someone with it, now we're told the solution is to eliminate the evil handgun. Then there won't be anymore innocent people shot.
They've done it with quote "assault rifles", large capacity magazines, because quote "Why does anyone need them." Personally I only shoot muzzle loaders. I have cartridge rifles, but I prefer black powder. Thank God crimes aren't being commited with muzzle loaders, I'll probably get to keep them since their not taken seriously by most of the uninformed population. In fact 18 years or so ago when it was proposed that we have a muzzle loading season, one of the people on the state board said "If we open up a season for muzzle loaders, we'll have to create one for rock and bottle throwers too." That from a state official. Place my faith in our elected officials, NOT.
Branch

bpence · May 17, 2001

Branch, couple of interesting thoughts you had that caught my attention.

I agree to some extent that training, testing, licensing, and other activities along those lines make it more difficult to register a weapon or in many cases obtain one. And, I agree that there have always been stupid people out there who just never caught on to anything. BUT, there's a whole lot more people out there today and a whole bunch of the people acquiring firearms today don't have much of a clue as to what the weapon they just bought is really capable of. I would venture to say that most of us that grew up around firearms, and/or were trained in the military on the care and feeding of a weapon, were given a LOT of safety sense and common sense before we were given the first live round. I know I was. I know my kids were. It's not a lot different than reading the owner/operator's manual when you get your new tractor the first day. You need to know how to operate safely, deliberately, and with a degree of common sense. That's why I think we need firearm education and training courses for most (if not all) gun owners. I didn't let any of my kids go hunting the first time without a hunter training course. They didn't step onto the practice range the first time until the range officer had completed a 4 hour orientation course for new folks to pistol shooting on a shooting range and how HIS range was run. He ran that course two nights a week, every week. Were those training sessions an inconvenience? Maybe. Made sense to me, though.

Maybe I'm old fashioned and not old fashioned at the same time. If you want to own a firearm, great. I'll support that right until my last breath. But damn, I sure want every gun owner to know how to safely use it and I want every gun owner to fully understand what's going to happen if/when they pull the trigger and the implications that carries. More than a gun seller giving a 5-10 minute shooting lesson. Let's not loose sight of the fact that people buying guns need to be given training/instruction........required training. And if that's an inconvienence or someone thinks it violates their rights, too bad.

That's my 4 cents worth.

Bob Pence

cowboydoc · May 17, 2001

Bill,
I guess the same argument could be made for owning any gun at all. The same could be said for free speech as well. Why does anyone really need to be free to talk about a religion that has other documents besides the bible? Certainly there are many religions that make no sense to me at all but to the person practicing them they make perfect sense. It's not my place to say right or wrong. Some of these religions do in fact wind up killing people as well. I guess what I'm trying to say is no I see no reason to own an assault rifle as well but maybe another person does. It scares me that if we go about regulating one firearm it's only a matter of time before the rest are as well. Look at the guys here that have posted they see no reason to own a handgun at all. I could name you a whole page of reasons. A handgun has saved my life twice. I also see no reason for a whole host of other things in this country as well, but as long as we are going to have freedom we are going to have to be tolerant of other people's beliefs as well.

cowboydoc · May 17, 2001

Amen rmacen I couldn't have said it better myself and you are completely right!

Branch · May 17, 2001

I agree with you about the need for licensing, with exceptions.
If you look at it like a car, I can own a car, have it on my property, and drive it all I want, as long as I never drive it on public property. If I want to go hunting, or shoot on private or public lands, I need to be trained or licensed to meet other peoples rules. But not on my own property. That has been the law of the land for hundreds of years and it has worked. Tens of millions of guns in the hands of the public. An infinitesimal number of problems with guns when kept in the home. I would venture a guess that if human life needs to be protected at all cost, then the effort to fully educate people and license them would be better spent on dirt bikes, chainsaws, etc.. If you want to truly save lives make everyone riding in a car wear a helmet and a full seat belt system and throw their butts in jail if they don't comply. My son has a gun that's on California's assault weapons list and they'll throw him in jail if he doesn't get rid of it. Thats stupid.
I think that guns are just a more emotional topic. So are nuclear power plants. We can't have those in Calif. either. Statistically gun ownership isn't a problem. Illegal gun use is. I'm happy to see that this administration is going to take the current gun laws seriously and they're going to prosecute offenders. Lets enforce our current laws before we create any new ones. I take full responsibility for my own actions and I expect everyone else to as well. Break the law, go to jail. But don't create so many laws that in effect we give up our right to bear arms.
We in California have been duped and theres no going back, let this be a wake up call to the rest of you. I will never get back the rights I've lost here but the rest of you don't have to give up yours. Fight it.

Branch

I will NEVER, EVER, ABSOULUTELY REFUSE, to license, register, or in any way notify the government about my guns. Anyone who thinks I should be forced from this position really scares me.
I swear this is my last response to this topic, I promise to shut up now.

<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1>Edited by Branch on 05/17/01 06:37 PM (server time).</FONT></P>