Firewood Questions

[dieselscout80]

So this tree that fell on 14 Jun and is on 6 July mostly split and stacked needs to really wait till fall of 2012 to burn.

My 12 year old boy is learning how to swing a sledge hammer. :thumbsup:

I know this green wet oak is much harder to split than oak that has dried a while.

 

[jnelson]

As a general rule I would recommend that all wood be seasoned 18 to 24 months before burning and 36 months would be ideal if possible (I never seem to get far enough ahead to burn 36 month wood). The first year I installed our outdoor wood furnace (a hot air model) we had about three to four cords of wood that had been cut and stacked in various places in our woods. It was amazing how that well seasoned wood heated the house. As the winter turned to early spring we found ourselves burning newer wood (some seasoned 9 to 12 months) and the reduction in heat available from the wood burned was very noticeable.

Perhaps some wood is softer and spongier when green but in my experience cutting and splitting cherry, oak (white, red, and pin oak), maple, and even tulip and poplar, they all seem to split with a maul easier immediately after they have been cut. It just seems that the moisture in the wood makes it split better - or maybe I just prefer to get it done sooner than later.

Where you hit the logs is much more important than how hard you hit it. I used to hit everything across the middle in an effort to split it in halves, and then into quarters. That method works with smaller rounds of wood but for large diameter logs you are far better off 'slabbing' them by splitting off slabs near the outside diameter and working your way around. Different woods definitely have particular characteristics that affect how and where to hit them.

I agree that heating with a masonry stove (or with wood in general) is not for everyone. Learning to anticipate and adjust for changing weather conditions and heating requirements is an important part wood burning. In most cases you can not raise (or lower) temperatures in the house near as easily as just setting a thermostat.

Those are good questions about rating efficiency. One could get wide ranging numbers depending on if the ratings are referring to the percentage of combustion (vs particulates in the exhaust smoke), amount of heat per weight or volume of wood, type of wood and moisture content, etc. I would think that the EPA would be most likely to measure the amount of particulates emitted from burning a measured amount of wood. Since some late model wood burners are equipped with catalytic combusters in the stack particulates from inefficient combustion are burned in the exhaust and perhaps not returning most of that secondary combustion into the room.

I think that it is a mistake to make judgements about any heating system based on one single 'efficiency' rating. There are a lot of variables to be considered and taking them all into consideration and mixing them with a good amount of common sense is probably the best approach. I also agree that before considering drastic changes in the way you heat that you can gain a lot of efficiency by simple insulating and doing other energy saving projects to conserve on what you already have.

My wife and I just cut, split and stacked a full cord of oak on Monday. That was the our 'fireworks' for the fourth. In the hot summer weather it is hard to believe that we will be schlepping that wood around in two foot deep snow and throwing it into the furnace in near zero temps, but it sure looks and feels good to see the growing wood stacks on our back hill.

JN

 

[Johndeere3720]

When I started my big firewood project, i went out and got myself a 27 log splitter and a chain saw. Now I have another chain saw, bigger than the first, and having the chain saw, tractor, and splitter makes wood processing much more time efficient. The splitter has already split over 15 cord of wood and has already payed for itself since i got it back last fall. When i stack it, it depends. At home I stack it on pallets and tie it all together so it could be one unit which is half a cord even. This way I can measure the amount of wood i have with ease. This last weekend i split and stacked probably 6 cord for my neighbor and just stacked it (Douglas fir and Oak) along his fence line for 50' and made 3 rows. He can now just take some barn metal and a few sheet metal screws and stick that over top the rows to keep the weather off them. I usually tarp my wood at home.

 

[jnelson]

Nice outfit. Nice job of stacking too! Looks like you have plenty of logs to work with.

I bought a splitter about three years ago. At the time I felt like it was a 'must have'. Then in the fall when I started cutting and splitting I just viewed the splitter as one more thing I would have to pull to the woods and never got around to using it. Frankly, I like the convenience of carrying a splitting maul up to the cut logs where they lay and splitting them on the spot. Using a splitter would involve either moving the logs to the splitter or the splitter to the logs.

I feel that in most cases I can split with the maul faster than using a splitter based on the cycle times I see of 10 seconds or more. That seems like forever if you watch ten seconds tick away on a clock. Anyway, after the splitter sat in the way in my pole barn for over a year without ever being used I posted it on Craigslist and sold it. I split between four and six cords of wood per year and I haven't missed having it yet.

JN

 

[clemsonfor]

Nice outfit. Nice job of stacking too! Looks like you have plenty of logs to work with.

I bought a splitter about three years ago. At the time I felt like it was a 'must have'. Then in the fall when I started cutting and splitting I just viewed the splitter as one more thing I would have to pull to the woods and never got around to using it. Frankly, I like the convenience of carrying a splitting maul up to the cut logs where they lay and splitting them on the spot. Using a splitter would involve either moving the logs to the splitter or the splitter to the logs.

I feel that in most cases I can split with the maul faster than using a splitter based on the cycle times I see of 10 seconds or more. That seems like forever if you watch ten seconds tick away on a clock. Anyway, after the splitter sat in the way in my pole barn for over a year without ever being used I posted it on Craigslist and sold it. I split between four and six cords of wood per year and I haven't missed having it yet.

JN

How old are you? I too can split faster by hand but not for as long as the splitter can. Sometimes if i have a small amount like a pickup load its not bad but sometimes if i cut and loaded it a splitter is nice.


As for my stove, not sure on the effiency but its a catalyst EPA stove. I got it this last winter, but it was used and may be around 6 years old? Its a high valley. I can heat about 2000sqft realistically in my uninsulated 1950s era home (except ceiling insulation) to about 65 degrees in the coldest winter months in SC. I only load it 2.5 times a day. Which is basically just a little more wood than i used in the open fireplace to heat the room for about 4 hours.

The catalyst burns everything when engaged and hot. I just have heat lines coming out of the chimney. And yes you get that heat to as they are desinged into the stove and get to like 1000+F degrees, trust me it heats the stove metal up!

I also dont doubt this masonry stove idea, i undersand it but how can a one hour fire heat some massive rock hot enought to heat a house with a short one hour fire? Unless your burning pine fat lighter i fail to see it. If i burn my stove wide open all drafts open in bypass mode to heat the cats up to light off it will take maybe 45 mins to get them to 500 degrees where they will light off their self.

 

[trailbuilder]

We had the dare here and we took the challenge. We had 2 teams of 2 young adult fit and experienced males compete in this maul vs. splitter. The challenge was regulated with respect to split size and scaled. The manual splitters won for 30 minutes and then the mechanised splitters kicked but!

 

[ultrarunner]

I also dont doubt this masonry stove idea, i undersand it but how can a one hour fire heat some massive rock hot enought to heat a house with a short one hour fire? Unless your burning pine fat lighter i fail to see it. If i burn my stove wide open all drafts open in bypass mode to heat the cats up to light off it will take maybe 45 mins to get them to 500 degrees where they will light off their self.

The masonry stoves I know are better suited to area heating... normally they are found in the wall separating the entry area/foyer and livingroom...

The fire burns longer than an hour... it is just the first 45 minutes to an hour till it burns down to embers/coals and then the airtight door is closed and the heat noticeably increases if the timing on closing the door is right... too early and the wood will not completely burn and too late and all the wood burns with little to know residual heat... it's almost like a reactor meltdown when the chamber is sealed full of hot coals at the right moment.

Wood is almost 100% hardwood and typically seasoned 2 to 3 years... in stacks as shown in the poster's pictures.

They do an excellent job of comfort heating those areas... kitchens in these homes are often dual fuel... like an old wedgewood stove... wood and electric or wood and gas.

So they really do not heat the entire house and any area with closed doors will be cold... most of the Europeans I know do not really heat their bedrooms in the deep of winter much... this is where the feather beds and thick down comforters come in to play.

There are many enhancements that can be made... I have seen masonry stoves with copper loops inside to heat water that is then used as hot water or more often as part of a radiant underfloor or radiator heat system... again, not really for the entire house but as an adjunct to warm a bathroom floor or maybe the to take the chill off the bedrooms. A tile floor that is 60 degrees is very comfortable in the depths of winter.

Most home have several different ways to heat and I have never seen forced air in any situation... almost always radiant with a variety of fuels... wood, coal, oil, natural gas and propane with electricity being last except for domestic water... most hot water heaters that are electric use "Night" electricity because it is as much as 40% cheaper in the wee hours of the morning so the water is heated only at night for use during the day... the heaters are typically 80 to 120 gallons... for spot use, point of use electric water heaters are used for the few gallons needed to wash dishes.... washing machines are like dishwashers and they heat the water as needed from only a cold water inlet.

It goes without saying that windows are highly efficient and nearly always triple glaze.

 

[Redneck in training]

It goes without saying that windows are highly efficient and nearly always triple glaze.

In fact the windows and doors are so efficiently sealed that the building code stipulates artificial infiltration. When the standard was initially established people were dying in the house when the fireplace or stove used most of the oxygen resulting CO poison them.

 

[jnelson]

How old are you? I too can split faster by hand but not for as long as the splitter can.

I'm sixty. I sit at a desk all week so I'm no athlete either. I also occasionally have back problems that can be aggravated by lifting heavy logs but doesn't seem to be bothered by splitting - another reason for using a maul rather than a power splitter.

I do agree that a splitter can outrun me in an endurance contest. Monday I cut and split just about a full cord of oak and I much prefer working in cool or cold weather. In the hot summer sun I went through more water and Gatorade than a splitter would go through gasoline.

The masonry stoves I know are better suited to area heating

I totally agree. That's why I stated in an earlier post that you almost have to design your house around the masonry stove instead of retro fitting it. And since the masonry stove works by radiated heat a very open floor plan is a necessity.

In fact the windows and doors are so efficiently sealed that the building code stipulates artificial infiltration.

I think that any sensible masonry (or similar design) stove should have an exterior source for combustion make-up air. That not only eliminates the depletion of oxygen in the house, it also reduces cold air intrusion by eliminating a negative pressure as well. More sophisticated designs I have seen route the exterior make-up air along side the combustion chamber to preheat it before it enters the combustion. An air-tight door is used and the make-up air channel has a shut-off to interrupt the draw at the end of the fire to trap heat in the stove.

the fire box door is over the cement stairs to the cellar... so the wood never comes into the living area of the house

I like this idea to keep bugs, dirt and ashes out of the living space. One could still equip the front of the combustion stove with a tempered glass window if it was desirable to watch the fire.

JN

 

[DAY]

Just as there are two sides to every story, there are differing opinions on maul vs splitter.
To split a LOT of wood in a LITTLE time, go with the powered machine, PTO or stand alone. The payback will eventually come, depending on the price of oil, and how many dollars per hour in "wages" you earn at tasks other than turning trees into BTU's.

But I think Henry David Thoreau would have something to say about the quiet "chunk!" as a a human powered maul cleaves a fresh cut section of oak or hickory, deep in the forest, where the only other sounds are the chirping birds and the occasional "pop" of another can of ale opening, the "glug" as it is poured into the maul's fuel tank.

Some people burn wood because they want to, others because they have to. And there are maul and splitter folks in both camps!