Thingy, I have read all your posts while Mantis has been looking for a tractor. I think we got the point that your neighbor has a junky Vietnam Yanmar. For those of us grey dealers that is not a big shock. The Vietnam rebuild nightmare is just that. Some of my good dealer friends that were very successful dealing tractors for many years were almost destroyed by selling Vietnam rebuilds.
You own one Jinma and know a neighbor who owns one grey market tractor and that is the basis for your opinion which is fine So I will give you the stats based on our experience with both grey and Chinese tractors as a dealer.
We have imported and sold 1300+ greys and 350+ Chinese. I sold the Jinma, Dong Feng and Kama tractors. In the Kama lineup I only sold the 45, 55hp, 85hp and 100hp models. I never imported Vietnam rebuilds and the Chinese were direct to my door in a container. I only sold the Chinese for 3 years and the greys for 6.
Bad engines- 6 grey 27 China
bad transmission (unfixable)- 1 grey 11 China
major transmission problem (fixable)- 7 grey 39 China
bad hydraulic pumps- 16 grey 110 China
broken axels and gears- 6 grey 31 china
bad clutch- 60 grey 40 china
Remember that I sold greys 3 to 1 over Chinese so that is 6 bad engines out of 1300 vs 27 out of 350. Every grey I sold we had about a 90% chance that they wouldn’t call with a problem.
Chinese tractors were 100% callback with problems. We took care of the issues and fixed what was wrong but it never stopped and to this day two years after I stopped selling Chinese tractors it is still my #1 call for service. The list of items we replaced during assembly trying to cure long term problems was huge and expensive. The Kama tractor had on average 65 hours of updates installed during assembly. The Dong Feng 354 was the only Chinese tractor that I sold that was equal to grey markets in ability to sell right out of the box. The DF254 was another story.
Kama's were solid after we got done with them but are still learning about what breaks on high hour machines. Over a 1000 hours they have some issues. All fixable.
Parts- Never had a grey I can t get up and running. Parts take about the same time to get. One thing that is frustrating is that if I send a part to a grey customer I know it will fit. If i send a part to a Chinese customer it might not fit or it might need some machining to fit. We found out that Chinese tractors were like Picassos.... Each one a hand made work of art.
ROPS- I don’t know why but I have had two customer fatalities on Chinese and none on the greys. I cant explain it. All tractors are dangerous as ****.
I know you will say they have gotten better since I sold them. Somewhat true but also not. China is a country of "NO CHANGE" . They hate change and when they are forced to make a change they don’t put their heart into it that is for sure. I went to the factories and had them come to my shop and the most disturbing thing to realize is that "saving face" is more important than anything. If an assembly line worker knows there is a problem with the part he is assembling it would be the ultimate disgrace for him to bring that to his bosses attention. he would forcing someone to admit they designed something improperly causing him to loose face. It weird for us but it is their culture. We service tractors from other dealers, I have seen the latest and greatest from china and it is better and worse. But i still see the same problems over and over.
Would I buy a Chinese tractor?..... For my home or small farm from the right dealer **** yes. My customers never saw the problems or nightmares because it was my job to fix the problems and give them a good product. All the customers that bought a Chinese tractors from me will be taken care of as long as i can keep the doors open. I just can't keep the doors open long term selling Chinese equipment.
If i had to make a living with a tractor I personally would not buy a Chinese machine but I also wouldn’t buy the homeowner lineup from the big 3 either. JD used to only have one quality level now they have 3. One for homeowners one for contractors and one for farmers. I did sell a Korean line of tractors (name withheld to avid lawsuits) after the Chinese tractors and they had equal breakdown ratios with the Chinese. The only difference was they cost twice as much.
As for GPS and auto steer I cant think of a greater invention when you make your living off the land. Our farmers are spraying planting and tilling 40000 acres at a time round the clock. When your spraying chemicals that cost 100 a gallon and your putting down 4 gallons an acre the ability to not overspray while running in pitch black is priceless. I use gps steer on my farm and it saves us big money and I can put anybody in the cab and know they wont drive off a cliff.
Sorry this is so long. Remember this is my opinion based on my experience and nothing else. Buy from a dealer YOU trust and when problems arrise you have a solution no matter what you buy.
Buck
bash at will, I asked for it.
And for thingy here is a bunch of commas,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, you can use them on your next five responses; I know its not enough but its all I could afford.
