Buying Advice First time on 5 acres - tractor selection?

   / First time on 5 acres - tractor selection? #71  
The cost of using a backhoe for random invented jobs; priceless.

This I agree with. If someone has the means to afford a nice tool, go for it. Just don't include the ROI in the figures.
 
   / First time on 5 acres - tractor selection? #72  
ROI: figure in the cost of golf club membership, green fees, equipment cost, travel cost. & refreshment cost and it may even out.
 
   / First time on 5 acres - tractor selection? #73  
Yes it is. Start looking at job sites. You see fewer and fewer backhoes and more and more excavators. There used to be many backhoe services around here. Now there aren't. They all are switching to excavators and skid steers. The only one I see around here with a backhoe on a regular basis is one cemetery burial service. The other cemeteries are switching to excavators as well, because they can get into and out of tight spaces easier, cause less dame age to repair, are les expensive to operate, etc...

There you go again, more statements that have othing to do with the TRENCHING post you started these comments about.

That said:
An excavator is better at all around digging.
A backhoe is better at general purpose and is NOT limited to digging.
 
   / First time on 5 acres - tractor selection? #74  
There you go again, more statements that have othing to do with the TRENCHING post you started these comments about.

That said:
An excavator is better at all around digging.
A backhoe is better at general purpose and is NOT limited to digging.

An excavator is better at trenching than a backhoe. That clear enough? :rolleyes:
 
   / First time on 5 acres - tractor selection? #75  
An excavator is better at trenching than a backhoe. That clear enough? :rolleyes:

Slightly better as I have said, not way better as you have said, I am glad you are seeing it my way :thumbsup:

A backhoe is better than an excavator for general purpose. :rolleyes:
 
   / First time on 5 acres - tractor selection? #76  
Excavators and backhoes each do work they are well suited for. It’s just using the proper equipment for the job at hand or utilizing what’s available at the best cost.
 
   / First time on 5 acres - tractor selection? #77  
Excavators and backhoes each do work they are well suited for. It’s just using the proper equipment for the job at hand or utilizing what’s available at the best cost.

Exactly!
 
   / First time on 5 acres - tractor selection? #78  
Real question is on the backhoe, what do you have in mind. If its one project, I suggest skipping the 7k purchase and renting an ex, only 2-300 for a day or about grand for a week. One day on an ex a competent operator can get a lot done.
 
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   / First time on 5 acres - tractor selection? #79  
First, if someone wants a machine and can afford it, great. It's just like buying a new car or truck. I've purchased many things in my life that I did not need, but wanted. I have no argument there.

However, I enjoy looking at how much things actually cost over time. By managing our costs carefully and honestly over the past 40 years, it has served us well, and hopefully, people can see that is the point of the buy VS rent discussion; which option makes more sense for each individual?

Per Kubota's build your own website, the BH77 backhoe for an L2501 is a $7K option. It digs 7.7'. Here's a link to the full specs.
Kubota | BH77
I've seen them used for $5k, but most are well over that. Many have "call for price".

I can rent a Bobcat E32I with thumb and trailer for $360 a weekend with unlimited hours. It digs 10' 2". Here's a link to the full specs.
E32 Excavator Specs & Options - Bobcat Company

That excavator will seriously outperform the BH77 in all digging tasks. It's got longer reach, deeper depth, higher height, twice the arm force, twice the bucket force, can rotate 360 degrees, and can get 90 degrees to an immovable object like a wall or fence, to name a few. It also has a cab, and from comments I've read, is more comfortable than the operator's station on the BH, which contributes to operator fatigue. It will do more work in less time, the end. Let's move on to costs.

I'd have to do 19.4 weekend rentals to = $7K, and I'd have to put at least 310 hours on the tractor with backhoe based on 8 hour days to = the rental machine hours if they were limited to 8 per day, which they aren't. But that doesn't take into consideration that the excavator will do more digging in the same time as that backhoe. With the specs listed for both, one can only guess that it'll do X-% more digging in the same amount of time as the backhoe. It's larger, stronger, faster, more maneuverable, etc... I'd guess, given the larger size of the excavator VS that BH77 it will be significant. Like 25-30% more at least. That's based on my personal use of that particular excavator, and watching small backhoes. They just seem a lot slower than that excavator. Based on that, I'm going to add 25% hours of operation to the tractor with backhoe and bump that 310 hours to 387.5 hours on the tractor VS 320 on the rented excavator (again, the excavator is unlimited weekend hours, and I'm limiting my usage to 8 per day for comparison, but I could legally put way more than 16 hours on the rental in a weekend if I had the inclination).

It's been stated many times on TBN that the average compact tractor owner puts about 50 hours per year on their machine. So that 387.5 hours equates to about 7.75 years of average usage taken off the machine by doing backhoe work with it. Figure that into the equation as well and consider the wear and tear the backhoe will impart onto the tractor and all of its components. It all takes a toll. You also have to store it when not in use and maintain it. You also have to remove it from the tractor anytime you want to use the 3pt hitch for some other attachment, then put it back on when needed again. Some are easy, some are not. I don't think it's that big of a deal, but it needs to be mentioned.

If you have a tractor with an FEL and rent an excavator, you can do the excavating with the excavator, and transport any materials with the FEL. If you have a backhoe on the tractor, you have to change seats and reposition the machine in order to transport materials any distance. You can also have a 2nd operator to run the tractor with FEL while you operate the excavator, so more work in less time due to 2 machines on site.

Of course, there's an advantage to having a backhoe on site 24/7, and that's convenience. You don't have to plan out projects meticulously to maximize your rental dollars/hours, or wait for a weekend and hope the weather is good (excavator had a cab), your mother-in-law Sheila needs something, etc... You can do them ASAP or at your leisure. You decide when you want to work. That can be priceless to some.

It's just that in many cases, and I'd guess more than less, the real economic advantages of owning a backhoe on a compact tractor for most homeowners isn't there when you add everything up. While the convenience advantage is downright outstanding, and if you can afford it, and want it, go for it. I would too. Just don't try and justify it economically. The dollar numbers aren't usually there for most homeowners. And that's my thoughts on the subject.

OP, good luck in your decision making. :thumbsup:
 
   / First time on 5 acres - tractor selection? #80  
MossRoad, I tend to agree with your assessment with one difference. As you mentioned a used BH appears to be worth around $5k, so instead of calculating the hours based on $7k, should it not be calculated abased on $2k? That changes it quite a bit to 5.5 weekends of rental. I still would not buy the BH for my specific purposes but only the OP knows how it fits in their plan. Lots of ways to look at it.
 

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