Flail mower adjustment

[Ricn]

Leonz- thanks for the info! Being my tractor is new, should I be thinking the new added tilt cylinder is the issue here? no problem with 3-point before getting rear remotes..

Ricn

 

[ericm979]

Rear remote valves are usually mounted outside the gearbox and can be worked on or replaced without splitting the tractor.

Leakdown on top and tilt cylinders is not unusual. There's been a bunch of threads about it and some people have posted methods to test to see if it's the valve or cylinder that's the problem.

 

[ovrszd]

Yeah, don't worry about the leakdown, it's common.

And as Eric said, you don't have to split the tractor to address that issue if you choose to.

 

[Ricn]

That is good news. Here is what I learned when stopping at the dealer for new filters: Top and Tilt bleed off is common, more so base on our implement weight and where as Flail Mowers are heavy can be a huge nuisance sometimes. The bleed off issue can be addressed by adjustment inside the rear hydraulics valve body that allows for holding up heavier loads on the cylinders. What bothers me the most is, after leveling the mower followed by mowing for 5 minutes followed by picking up the 3 point my mower is hanging down on its right side as far as the tilt cylinder will allow while the top cylinder stays put like I want it too. Then, when setting it back down to mow or putting away, the right corner of the roller is taking all the impact before the mower can then settle down all the way flat onto the rear roller. This can't be good for the mower roller IMO-although the cylinder and three point system may take it fine...So now thinking to have the dealer hydraulic mechanics adjust the valve to hold everything when up as it's beyond me to do that. This being my first Flail Mower, I should add that mowing with the 5 ft rotary has never done this on any of our tractors, even when on my new Kubota the rotary has stayed level when using the rotary a couple times. Always lots to learn with new equipment; had I know of this issue, maybe could have had the valve body pre adjusted for the heavier weight. Appreciate all the answers and suggestions and as always TBN is full of great guys willing to help..

Ricn

 

[aczlan]

What you could do is install load checks on your side tilt cylinder. That forces it to have more than a certain amount of pressure to let the cylinder move. One example:

LOCK VALVE 1/2" NPT 25 GPM 3 PSI | Check & Lock Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

Aaron Z

 

[Ricn]

Aczlan - Thanks for this info and the link! Leonz, another board member, had mentioned this as well and believe he called it a needle valve. When at the dealer today I ask about needle valves to do just as Leonz and you mention, locking out the flow to stop the cylinder from leaking off; their hydraulics expert said adjusting the pressure inside the top and tilt valve was the proper way to do this, not the needle valve or lock valve as you call it although he did say the lock valve will work. Are both methods correct but one costing less? Personally, I don't enough about hydraulics to have an opinion so really in the dark here...Ricn

 

[aczlan]

What is happening is that a little fluid is leaking past the current valve and letting the cylinder drift down.
The lock valve I linked to, requires (for example) 2000psi of pressure on the tractor side of the lines before it sends any fluid to the cylinder.
The needle valve also blocks the fluid from moving, but you have to manually open and close it each time you want to move the cylinder.

Aaron Z

 

[Ricn]

Thanks for that explanation, think I get it now so will be working on this soon.

Ricn

 

[aczlan]

The "right" way to fix it is to replace the tractor valve as the dealer says, but IMO, its no guarantee that the new valve will do any better and you will be better off with a valve, either a needle valve, a 1/4 turn valve, or the check/lock valve that I linked to.

Aaron Z

 

[Ricn]

Very good point. Here is exactly what the Kubota dealer said:

1. Because Top and Tilt requires extra valve bodies to run rear hydraulics, the kits from Kubota must include these valve bodies or valve body, based on the number of remotes so now have three remotes installed.
2. The tilt cylinder is leaking back due to the mower weight it is holding up; my Woodmaxx is about 650 or a little more according to the Woodmaxx website.
3. Kubota says the valves can be adjusted internally for the mowers weight and do not need replacement; have suggested that over using lockout valves. One would think they might ask the mower weight beforehand so the valve could be adjusted then but they did not although, I had told them of my intended use when ordering the parts and did not know enough at that time to ask the question about adjustment for my mowers weight.

- If internal valve adjustment is costly, I may add the lockouts as you guys have suggested, just trying to make a good decision on all this, not being a hydro expert don't want to get bit later from a wrong decision.
- Waiting on a call from the Kubota shop guys on what the valve adjustment will cost but meantime, enlighten me if you can, about the lockout valve; if installing one, is there any negatives about how the valve reacts over time, like eventually harming the new valves or some other issue?

Ricn

 

[ovrszd]

I've never heard of this "internal valve adjustment" that you refer to.

I want to call "BS" but will wait for the hydraulic experts to chime in....... :confused3:

 

[Ricn]

This adjustment idea comes via the hydraulics tech at the Kubota dealer so we shall see. They want to pick up my tractor with the mower attached to see what is going on. Like TBN, they said loosing fluid back from the cylinder is common although, I can't see dropping my $2500. mower on it's right side every time it is lowered to the ground. I may end up doing as you guys have recommended by locking out the fluid if the dealer has no fix or, I could put the manual adjustment arm back on for now. I suppose this same issue will come up when using my box blade as it is pretty heavy as well.

Ricn

 

[ovrszd]

I carry a 10ft mounted dual spindle cutter on my M9540 with TnT. I have to adjust the tilt function about every 30-45 minutes of use. I just accept that and have taught myself to make the adjustment. My leakage doesn't bother me enough to add a Double Pilot Locking Valve.

 

[Ricn]

About what I have been doing but it's maybe lift the mower every 5 minutes due to turns, trees, fences plus, the cylinder bleeds down rather fast. Starting to think I may be expecting to much from these added rear hydraulics.

Ricn

 

[ovrszd]

I don't think it's that you are overloading the hydraulics. I think it's simply the leakage tolerances of the valves.

There are stories on here of equipment that never leaks down. But for each of those there are 20 that do leak down.

My rear remotes are Kubota factory valves.

 

[aczlan]

I don't think it's that you are overloading the hydraulics. I think it's simply the leakage tolerances of the valves.

There are stories on here of equipment that never leaks down. But for each of those there are 20 that do leak down.

My rear remotes are Kubota factory valves.

You are correct from what I understand.

Aaron Z

 

[Ricn]

Well, as fast as mine leaks down might as well go back to the factory threaded adjustment arm because
what I have now is a pain in the a.... - In retrospect and if Kubota comes back telling me there is no
internal adjustment to be made and keeping the mower level is all that is needed the factory
3-point threaded arm will do that or, could install one of the two recommended locking devices.

Ricn

 

[ericm979]

Leaking down in five minutes seems defective. My Branson's top and tilt don't leak down noticeably when running a rotary mower.

 

[leonz]

Well, as fast as mine leaks down might as well go back to the factory threaded adjustment arm because
what I have now is a pain in the a.... - In retrospect and if Kubota comes back telling me there is no
internal adjustment to be made and keeping the mower level is all that is needed the factory
3-point threaded arm will do that or, could install one of the two recommended locking devices.

Ricn

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Hello and good afternoon Ricn,

how many remote pairs do you have on your mule?
If you only have one pair it is leaking through the machined spool valves to casting clearances and back to the sump.
if you have a second set of remotes perhaps you could try the second remote if so equipped?


I guess its going to be an either or question as it takes a long time for a cylinder to go bad from wear and as I believe you stated it is brand new.

I would price out a Parker needle valve and the two new JIC fitting to pipe to pipe coupler to the second JIC fitting needed to connect to the rod side of the cylinder.just to get some perspective on the entire issue and then decide if you want to invest in it versus returning to using the top link turnbuckle supplied with the mule.

 

[Ricn]

Leonz - my tractor has 3 sets of remotes all installed by my local Kubota dealer about 3 weeks ago. Top and Tilt plus one more that is currently connected to the side to side cylinder on my flail mower. The top link works great with NO issues. The flail mower link works great as well. The Tilt Link cylinder is the trouble as it just won't hold my mower level more than maybe 5-10 minutes before leaking off its entire length. If Kubota can fix this by some adjustment procedure, something they say is possible at the moment, I want them doing so. When mentioning the needle valve idea they said that voids any warrantee from them or Kubota...So you see, at this point in time I'm in a bubble of sorts. The dealer is picking up my tractor today saying they want both it and the mower to look it over, see what can be done. I will keep everyone informed as to what is happening as things progress...Meanwhile, I will price out your suggestion, also those of another two fellows. Thanks TBN !!

Ricn