Flu vaccination, yes or no.

[IslandTractor]

OK, the thread got me to looking at studies again. Based upon the unfortunate change in the CDC website I had to search elsewhere. Of course there are several anti-vaccine sites that list research studies, but to avoid the bias, I avoided those sites.

As for the effectiveness in the elderly, this study looked at a significant population and found that there is a bias of those that get the flu shot. It appears that the healthy people may be more likely to get a flu shot, and therefore there is a bias if you only study the people during the flu season.
https://academic.oup.com/ije/articl...nce-of-bias-in-estimates-of-influenza-vaccine

Along the lines of whether healthcare people should be forced to get a shot. Well that all sounds well and good, but there doesn't appear to be science supporting it.
Health worker flu vaccine data insufficient to show protection for patients | CIDRAP
Influenza Vaccination of Healthcare Workers: Critical Analysis of the Evidence for Patient Benefit Underpinning Policies of Enforcement

I think it's clear why many doctors are not pushing the vaccine. There certainly are a lot of studies out there...
Association between the 28–9 Seasonal Influenza Vaccine and Pandemic H1N1 Illness during Spring–Summer 29: Four Observational Studies from Canada
Increased risk of noninfluenza respiratory virus infections associated with receipt of inactivated influenza vaccine. - PubMed - NCBI
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20614424

It's good to see you can still read good science from NIH. And as we all know, ALWAYS look for the money trail.... From the last study.

"Influenza vaccines have a modest effect in reducing influenza symptoms and working days lost. There is no evidence that they affect complications, such as pneumonia, or transmission.WARNING: This review includes 15 out of 36 trials funded by industry (four had no funding declaration). An earlier systematic review of 274 influenza vaccine studies published up to 2007 found industry funded studies were published in more prestigious journals and cited more than other studies independently from methodological quality and size. Studies funded from public sources were significantly less likely to report conclusions favorable to the vaccines. The review showed that reliable evidence on influenza vaccines is thin but there is evidence of widespread manipulation of conclusions and spurious notoriety of the studies. The content and conclusions of this review should be interpreted in light of this finding."

Sorry I am running out of time before traveling to a hockey tournament. I do not doubt that there are studies that fail to show a beneficial effect of any given vaccination strategy. There are many reasons for this besides the obvious lack of any real efficacy. Vaccine studies are particularly difficult because different years have differences in severity of epidemic and match between epidemic and vaccine strains. There is lots of data though showing the benefit of influenza vaccine in seniors which is why that group has always been targeted. Here is an example from the same CIDRAP journal you linked: http://www.cidrap.umn.edu/news-pers...lashes-older-peoples-risk-flu-hospitalization

You might want to look up the HICPAC guidelines on Influenza vaccine in HCW as that is the repository of the CDC expert panel's summary of the literature and recommendations and has a quite rigorous and open methodology. https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/rr5502a1.htm Not sure if there is an updated version.

 

[ultrarunner]

If you work at a hospital then you will be treated just like the docs and nurses. Don't try to find an evidence based rationale as it boils down to just keeping it simple. Otherwise the poor occupational health and infection control people would be engaged full time in adjudicating employee exemption requests.

Hep B is important because if an infected woman gives birth then her child has a very high risk of chronic Hep B disease which is "Bigly" bad. We can and do screen pregnant women so appropriate preventative measures can be taken at birth but it makes even more sense to simply prevent women from becoming infected. Of course avoiding and sharing needles seems like a no brainer but we all know that a certain percentage of our population will do that. If a man has a wild youth and becomes infected, he can later infect one of our daughters. The only way to prevent that type of transmission (which probably accounts for most transmission worldwide) is to vaccinate the whole population. We do in fact vaccinate all kids and have for the past 25 plus years. Probably not such a big deal that a 60 year old is unvaccinated today but again your case falls into the "hospital employee" category so it would be an uphill battle to prove you aren't at risk. If you are a hospital facilities engineer there is probably not much exposure but if you were a biomedical engineer in the same hospital...you'd be exposed to blood all the time and often wouldn't recognize it.

Thanks again...

The only distinction I have found is the IT department isn't subject to any of these rules... part of my job is backup for IT

I do agree that most likely it is a one size fits all... going from several hundred employees where you recognize everyone to an organization of 50,000

 

[coolreinfarm]

Last time I got one I got sick as a dog about a week later, that was about 7 years ago. Haven't had one since and this old dog is still in pretty good shape!

Same here had a cold for 2 weeks the first time, thought it was a coincidence next year same thing , haven't had a shot since and no flu that's been 20 years ago.

 

[IslandTractor]

Thanks again...

The only distinction I have found is the IT department isn't subject to any of these rules... part of my job is backup for IT

I do agree that most likely it is a one size fits all... going from several hundred employees where you recognize everyone to an organization of 50,000

IT geeks don't have any human interactions at all so are not susceptible to communicable diseases and therefore don't require vaccination.

 

[ultrarunner]

The vaccine industry is actually kind of a tail end charlie in the pharmaceutical world. They can be profitable but are not nearly as profitable as most other pharma products. There may be a few vaccine millionaires but not nearly as many as traditional pharma or biotech millionaires and billionaires. There is also a clear link between the public health community and vaccine producers but luckily there are no solo private practitioner public health types who can be easily manipulated by pharmaceutical detail reps (you should see the women they hire!). s.

I can spot a Drug Rep walking across the parking lot... always young, well dressed, etc...

One Drug Rep had a baby from one of the Pain Management Docs and these Docs often deal with terminal patients and prescribe lots of meds...

One of my Drug Rep friends worked for J and J.... she was super knowledgeable, able to push through care for indigent patients and super sweet... she was so good that she had access where others were denied... mostly for helping with treatment plans...

The week she turned 35 she was let go and replaced by a 23 year old version... the new person simply lacked experience and quickly was denied access and when regional followed up J and J was told what a great rep that had let go in no uncertain terms.

 

[ultrarunner]

Same here had a cold for 2 weeks the first time, thought it was a coincidence next year same thing , haven't had a shot since and no flu that's been 20 years ago.

What ever the reason... it never fails for people to call in sick and feel down after Flu Shots... happens every year and predictable as can be...

Sounds like I have more exposure managing my rental property than at work... had a bad sewage backup over the weekend... the concrete 10 x 12 basement was 4' deep in sewage... one of the tenants had flushed tons of baby wipes and hair extensions... and this is just what did not go through the pipe...

My Honda Mower, Professional Edger, etc were all submerged... pumped out the basement and have not even begun to address the submerged equipment...

 

[k0ua]

IT geeks don't have any human interactions at all so are not susceptible to communicable diseases and therefore don't require vaccination.

It is not that they don't have human interactions, it is that they aren't actually human. (just kidding)

 

[dickfoster]

What ever the reason... it never fails for people to call in sick and feel down after Flu Shots... happens every year and predictable as can be...

Sounds like I have more exposure managing my rental property than at work... had a bad sewage backup over the weekend... the concrete 10 x 12 basement was 4' deep in sewage... one of the tenants had flushed tons of baby wipes and hair extensions... and this is just what did not go through the pipe...

My Honda Mower, Professional Edger, etc were all submerged... pumped out the basement and have not even begun to address the submerged equipment...

I tried the landlord bit for a little while and that was quite enough. I was made worse since I was remote the house being in SoCal and me in NorCal but I used a real estate agent as a go between. It just wasn't worth the hassle so I finally sold the house. Just try being a nice guy and just see what happens to ya.The A hole tenant dug up and destroyed the back yard among other things then even stole the ceiling light fixtures on his way out. Then he had the audacity to list me as a reference. I gave him a glowing reference all right.

 

[dickfoster]

It is not that they don't have human interactions, it is that they aren't actually human. (just kidding)

Yeah but they are exposed to all of those computer viruses and stuff. They just use different vaccines from Symantec etc.

 

[MossRoad]

IT geeks don't have any human interactions at all so are not susceptible to communicable diseases and therefore don't require vaccination.

Have you tried turning off and then on again?