EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
I do a lot of work for a local church that has gone from one of the bigger churches in the area to one that's losing members at an alarming rate. The finger pointing is pretty bad as to what and why it's happening. I have my opinions too, but as the contractor that they hire to do repairs, I'll only mention what applies here.
Budget for churches is a funny thing. Repairs seem to be at the bottom of the list of what gets taken care of. I spent a couple days identifying issues and classifying them as to importance as to what can be put off and what needs to be taken care of right away before it gets worse and what is critical that needs to be fixed right away. They board meets with my bids and decides what to spend the money on. I don't give disounts, and I don't care if they hire me or not. They have gone the free labor route with members for year and it's costing them now that they have to redo everything. The board always hires me to do the cosmetic things and ignores the things that will lead to big money to repair. Some are water leaks, others are wood rot that's gotten bad.
When they first called me it was to inspect their roof because their member who did all their work before me told them that they needed a new roof and it would cost $75,000 to do it right. I went all over the roof, found some issues and also saw that the shingles, flashing and caps were in excellent condition. There was a need for some repairs, which I bed as two days labor and a small amount of materials.
As to the roof in question, when hiring and bidding out a roof, be sure to specify what it is that you want used. The biggest issue that I come across is that the client assumes that the best materials are going to be used, but nothing is in writing. Get everything in writing. The roof is too important to cut corners. There are other areas that you can do this, but never on a roof.
Strip it down to the wood. Each layer is going to be weaker then the previous one. You can easily cut the life of a shingle in half or more by putting it over another layer. Whey pay for premium materials that will just fail because of a shortcut in removing a layer? That's just crazy The wood decking will need repairs. It's a given, and that needs to be factored into any roof job. Some roofers hire me to do the wood work, other times it's the homeowners when they see what their roofer is trying to pass as a repair. Always inspect everything that you hire somebody to do. NEVER TRUST them.
Once the decking is perfect, use 30 pound paper. It's twices as much as 15 pound paper, but it's more then twice as good. Remember, shingles are not water proof. They shed water to a large degree, but they are only there to protect the paper under the shingles. The paper is your water proof membrane and in my opinion, the most important part of a shingle roof.
If the paper is damaged during the roofing install, insist that it's replaced or another layer is installed. NEVER let them just nail it back into place.
Instist on metal flashing. One thing that I see fairly often is that paper is used in the valley's. Always use metal flashing there. If you have a chimney or wall, insist that the metal flashing is cut into the brick and sealed. Do not let them just lay it agains the brick and use tar sealer. It has to be cut into the brick to for a water tite seal.
Buy the best shingles that you can afford. There is a differnce in what you get, and how long they will hold up.
Insist that they use nails to install the shingles. It's cheaper for them to use staples, but it's almost impossible to staple a shingle down and not go through the shingle on a semi regular basis. This is a HUGE problem that I come across when shingles fail. The other shortcut that I see is when they use nails that are too short. The shaft of the nail must go through the wood sheething to hold. If the point doesn't go all the way through and you don't see part of the shaft of the nail, then the nail will not hold. I've seen squares come off of a roof on a windy day because the nails were not long enough.
Replace all the vents. I know that some of them might look fine, but they are often the cause of leaks after a new roof. It's more money, but something that needs to be done to ensure that there are no leaks down the road.
If you can, I would try to get the Pastor and/or Board Members to read this thread. There is some very good advice that's been given by those who know what they are talking about. Anybody that suggests removing 2 layers on a roof with four layers is just as crooked and dishonest as the person who put on that fourth layer. Ignorance and icompetence is no excuse and should be looked at as intentional dishonestly when it's something as important and expensive as this.
Good luck,
Eddie
Budget for churches is a funny thing. Repairs seem to be at the bottom of the list of what gets taken care of. I spent a couple days identifying issues and classifying them as to importance as to what can be put off and what needs to be taken care of right away before it gets worse and what is critical that needs to be fixed right away. They board meets with my bids and decides what to spend the money on. I don't give disounts, and I don't care if they hire me or not. They have gone the free labor route with members for year and it's costing them now that they have to redo everything. The board always hires me to do the cosmetic things and ignores the things that will lead to big money to repair. Some are water leaks, others are wood rot that's gotten bad.
When they first called me it was to inspect their roof because their member who did all their work before me told them that they needed a new roof and it would cost $75,000 to do it right. I went all over the roof, found some issues and also saw that the shingles, flashing and caps were in excellent condition. There was a need for some repairs, which I bed as two days labor and a small amount of materials.
As to the roof in question, when hiring and bidding out a roof, be sure to specify what it is that you want used. The biggest issue that I come across is that the client assumes that the best materials are going to be used, but nothing is in writing. Get everything in writing. The roof is too important to cut corners. There are other areas that you can do this, but never on a roof.
Strip it down to the wood. Each layer is going to be weaker then the previous one. You can easily cut the life of a shingle in half or more by putting it over another layer. Whey pay for premium materials that will just fail because of a shortcut in removing a layer? That's just crazy The wood decking will need repairs. It's a given, and that needs to be factored into any roof job. Some roofers hire me to do the wood work, other times it's the homeowners when they see what their roofer is trying to pass as a repair. Always inspect everything that you hire somebody to do. NEVER TRUST them.
Once the decking is perfect, use 30 pound paper. It's twices as much as 15 pound paper, but it's more then twice as good. Remember, shingles are not water proof. They shed water to a large degree, but they are only there to protect the paper under the shingles. The paper is your water proof membrane and in my opinion, the most important part of a shingle roof.
If the paper is damaged during the roofing install, insist that it's replaced or another layer is installed. NEVER let them just nail it back into place.
Instist on metal flashing. One thing that I see fairly often is that paper is used in the valley's. Always use metal flashing there. If you have a chimney or wall, insist that the metal flashing is cut into the brick and sealed. Do not let them just lay it agains the brick and use tar sealer. It has to be cut into the brick to for a water tite seal.
Buy the best shingles that you can afford. There is a differnce in what you get, and how long they will hold up.
Insist that they use nails to install the shingles. It's cheaper for them to use staples, but it's almost impossible to staple a shingle down and not go through the shingle on a semi regular basis. This is a HUGE problem that I come across when shingles fail. The other shortcut that I see is when they use nails that are too short. The shaft of the nail must go through the wood sheething to hold. If the point doesn't go all the way through and you don't see part of the shaft of the nail, then the nail will not hold. I've seen squares come off of a roof on a windy day because the nails were not long enough.
Replace all the vents. I know that some of them might look fine, but they are often the cause of leaks after a new roof. It's more money, but something that needs to be done to ensure that there are no leaks down the road.
If you can, I would try to get the Pastor and/or Board Members to read this thread. There is some very good advice that's been given by those who know what they are talking about. Anybody that suggests removing 2 layers on a roof with four layers is just as crooked and dishonest as the person who put on that fourth layer. Ignorance and icompetence is no excuse and should be looked at as intentional dishonestly when it's something as important and expensive as this.
Good luck,
Eddie
