For the college folks

   / For the college folks #91  
Really?

I had a 4.0 index and also prided myself on my ability to trouble shoot. Once again, it's called "critical thinking" and it's not isolated to farm boys, city boys or even boys.
Intelligence is the ability to resolve your problems constructively and it's not the privileged domain of any group, it's an aspect of the individual.
Geeze! He thinks a 'C' student farm boy makes the best engineer, where do they get these people?

"Two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity.... I'm not sure about the universe."

Albert Einstein (not a farm boy, by the way, a patent clerk.)

Rob

There could possibly be a past experience that led him to that conclusion and I suspect that any one with a "blue collar" background would meet that requisite practical upbringing. My experience has been that some of the highly educated with high GPA fail to realize that sometimes the correct answer is "I don't know". Some also think that knowledge and intelligence are exclusionary - if I have it, then you couldn't possibly.

I try not to pass judgment on what someone's conclusions are until I understand how they were reached - critical thinking. :)

Jim
 
   / For the college folks #92  
The problem with calculators is that most kids have lost the ability to do rough math estimates in their head. So they believe what ever number the calculator or computer spits at them and do not even think about what the number means. So if they make a mistake on an input and get a result that makes no sense, they believe it because the black box told them.

Now that i think about it, that also seems to be true for many with that black box we call a radio or TV.

Ken
 
   / For the college folks #93  
There could possibly be a past experience that led him to that conclusion and I suspect that any one with a "blue collar" background would meet that requisite practical upbringing. My experience has been that some of the highly educated with high GPA fail to realize that sometimes the correct answer is "I don't know". Some also think that knowledge and intelligence are exclusionary - if I have it, then you couldn't possibly.

I try not to pass judgment on what someone's conclusions are until I understand how they were reached - critical thinking. :)

Jim

Intelligence, common sense and critical thinking aren't a product of an education or the lack of one. Just because someone grew up on a farm doesn't mean they learned critical thinking. I live in farm country and there are smart farmers and stupid farmers.
And the employer is making judgments based on a lack of critical thinking. The right answer is that each individual who comes through his door should be evaluated on his or her knowledge and critical thinking regardless of their background. Just because someone graduated at the top of the class doesn't mean they are zombies.
Did you ever work with really smart people? I did, I worked on top secret military computers that were critical to our defense. These guys got doctorates at 22 years old and could run through math like the rest of eat breakfast. I can remember strings of 12 and 16 numbers and they out did me. So it has nothing to do with being a farm anything. Great minds don't necessarily do well in school but that doesn't mean that great minds never do well in school.
I've worked with blue collar workers who couldn't put a nut on a bolt and one's who could make the bolt and the nut.
Are there 'educated' people educated beyond their intelligence? Sure but there are also uneducated people who couldn't find a cross in church and educated people who run rings around everyone else.

Rob
 
   / For the college folks #94  
The problem with calculators is that most kids have lost the ability to do rough math estimates in their head. So they believe what ever number the calculator or computer spits at them and do not even think about what the number means. So if they make a mistake on an input and get a result that makes no sense, they believe it because the black box told them.

Now that i think about it, that also seems to be true for many with that black box we call a radio or TV.

Ken

Yes, but that's a two way street and when the abacus was invented I'll bet someone said the same thing. I see good colleges today focusing on critical thinking and evaluating students on their ability to do it. Just like everything else education changes with the times. I remember kids with slide rules that would come to conclusions that were ridiculous based on what the slide rule showed. The human mind hasn't changed much in the last few thousand years and if tomorrow all the calculators stopped working we would start using different channels in out brains to accomplish what we had to do.
People used the sun and an obelisque to figure out the time of day, now we use a watch. Now we don't have a trig table they're in a calculator. People don't know how their car works but they know how to get from point 'A' to point 'B'. You get the idea.

Rob
 
   / For the college folks #95  
Intelligence, common sense and critical thinking aren't a product of an education or the lack of one. Just because someone grew up on a farm doesn't mean they learned critical thinking. I live in farm country and there are smart farmers and stupid farmers.
And the employer is making judgments based on a lack of critical thinking. The right answer is that each individual who comes through his door should be evaluated on his or her knowledge and critical thinking regardless of their background. Just because someone graduated at the top of the class doesn't mean they are zombies.
Did you ever work with really smart people? I did, I worked on top secret military computers that were critical to our defense. These guys got doctorates at 22 years old and could run through math like the rest of eat breakfast. I can remember strings of 12 and 16 numbers and they out did me. So it has nothing to do with being a farm anything. Great minds don't necessarily do well in school but that doesn't mean that great minds never do well in school.
I've worked with blue collar workers who couldn't put a nut on a bolt and one's who could make the bolt and the nut.
Are there 'educated' people educated beyond their intelligence? Sure but there are also uneducated people who couldn't find a cross in church and educated people who run rings around everyone else.

Rob

Rob

I agree with most of what you say and maybe I wasn't clear on what I meant. I was primarily questioning your conclusion that the person who preferred B/C students who were raised on a farm was "stupid". And I don't think there is enough information to reach that conclusion, thus the "critical thinking" reference. Not arguing, just providing food for thought.:)

Jim
 
   / For the college folks #96  
The smartest person (IMHO) I ever met was a farm boy who got a PhD in Physical Chemistry from the University of Chicago. I never asked, but I suspect he made good grades. He could fix your truck or your computer and program either one. If the truck didn't have a computer he could have installed one. He was in academics when I met him, but he got bored and left to work for a series of computer companies, ending with Intel. His idea of a good time was learning a new computer language over a weekend.

It doesn't require any kind of extreme intelligence to get university degrees, even advanced degrees. It is mainly a matter of interest and opportunity. I went to college because I was expected to go to college. Turns out it was also what I wanted to do. Lots of people who could do well in the college setting either don't think it is for them or don't have the opportunity, or at least think they don't.

I have dealt with many, many PhDs and graduate students over the years. Some have been scary smart. Some you wonder how they manage to find their way out of bed in the morning. I have noted a certain lack of mechanical ability in many highly educated folks, and that has been to my benefit because I do know which end of a screwdriver to hold onto, and part of my job is maintaining equipment for some really smart folks who have managed to go through life without ever learning the difference between a light bulb and a fuse. On the other hand, one of my buddies is an internationally known inorganic chemist who routinely fixes his own appliances, does his own wiring (yes, to code), and once helped me replace a clutch on a 1980 something Nissan 200SX.

Talents of various kinds exist everywhere, and often co-exist in the same person.

Chuck
 
   / For the college folks #97  
[Talents of various kinds exist everywhere, and often co-exist in the same person./QUOTE]

Sure wish some of them would have stuck to me.:ashamed:
 
   / For the college folks #98  
My comments regarding calculators was not that they should not use them but that they should not use them until they reach a certain level of proficiency doing the math for themselves first. I do not know of anyone who wishes they did not know how to do math in their head.

I do get a chuckle out of young cashiers who can not make change if they lose power or have some other sort of failure.

Ken
 
   / For the college folks #100  
You know, might be a little odd but I always figured the man who told me wisdom is nothing more than the ability to put the problem of the moment up against the rolodex of life learning and experience and come up with an answer was right on the money. Sometimes the wisest answer is I don't know, but I have a good idea where to look for the answer.

Funny thing, over my lifetime I've met a whole lot of people both educated and uneducated, and that sure don't mean they got a fancy piece of paper hanging in a frame on the wall. Just last week the doctor fellow from over to the University showed up to tell me I sharpened his mower blades wrong cause they cut bad. He's always talking on how he has 2 doctor degrees and well you know the kind. I look at them blades and it didn't take a minute to know what his problem was, he put em on the mower upside down. I show them to Harrison and he grabs a marker and writes Deck Side and Grass Side on them and hands em back to superdoctor and shows him the way to the door.

Another time I hauled a transformer into Boston, probably the 20th one I hauled there, and all the bigwigs from the power company show up at the staging point where I gotta wait for the cops to let me get going into the city wearing their expensive suits and new hardhats to get their picture took. The fellow who headed the rigging crew for years had retired and all them geniuses hired this little fellow who had more degrees than a compass to replace him. He was a nice enough man, but he did talk kind of like a 33rpm record being played at 45rpm, and had what looked like about 2 rolls of toilet paper wrapped around his head with a hardhat on top of the pile. Now, I'm just a dumb trucker to all them educated folks, so I sit there in my cab enjoying my coffee and minding my own business. Next thing I know the little man with the toilet paper head sits himself a ladder right there next to my door and climbs up. Sure as I'm sitting here the man asks me "are you the driver of this truck?" Now what can I say to a question like that? No I just sit here holding the steering wheel so he won't get cold hands when he shows up. Well, I just took another sip and told him I was, and he goes to doing that funny sounding talking most of what I could understand was how he had everything ready and I was going to follow his instructions to the letter for maximum efficiency. I just sat there not even letting it run in one ear, let alone out the other.

Now I already delivered 5 loads there to the same spot this one is going, and Mr Toiletpaper has it in his highly educated head I can't do it with number 6 cause some book he has says so. What he didn't read is I just might know a trick or 7 that ain't in the book, and regardless what he thinks unless some Boston cop changes my route I'm following it. We finally get going all of 5 miles an hour cause I'm 94 feet long with 17 sets of tires on the ground, and Mr Toiletpaper has hisself all hunkered down in the back of a breadtruck with all his blueprints and such on his drawing table in there, and looking out the door at me. Fine by me, just remember don't stop quick. Next thing he's jumpin around in back of his truck wavin his arms like there's a fire in there, and the bread truck turns into some parking lot where there is one of them mobil platform contraptions and about 10 trucks full of riggers waiting with a 100 ton crane. That fool jumps out the back of a moving truck and comes running at my rig, so I gotta play organplayer on 4 spikes and lock her up without jackknifing.

Turns out Mr Know It All was planning to spend a lot of extra dollars to move the transformer off my trailer onto the platform thing and then drive that to the powerhouse. I was ready to beat him to a pulp for making me stop like that, and dang near did hadn't been for one of the riggers stopping me. I told the cops they better take him and put him in one of their cars cause if they didn't I'd squish him if he pulled that crap again. Best part was he did it in front of all the big executives, and they was wondering if his brain might be roasting under all that headgear. The cops stuffed him in a car and we got back rolling right past the platform. Fool never even gave a thought to the fact I would have gone right through that pavement if I pulled in there. 2 hours later I backed that transformer right where the crane operator wanted her, and everybody went to unbinding it for the pick.

I heard Mr Toiletpaperhead got out of the copcar and stuffed right back in his breadtruck office by a bunch of pretty mad executives who were mad enough to send him back where he came from.

Now I ani't mentioning any names here, but it do seem to me there are a couple kinds of educated folks. You got them who went to some school, paid their money and went on about life accomplishing things, and you got them who just gotta tell everybody how they went to this school and that and had these grades and got this degree and that who can't get a blade on a dang lawnmower right side up. Personally I don't much care for the second group. They strikr me as a little more than arrogant, and in need of a swift kick to get their brain unlocked if that can be done. I ain't yet met one in the second group that didn't have a dented up car cause they can't hardly drive.
 

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