For the college folks

[Rob-D]

This fellow sounds like the people that Louis Grizzard, well known writer and novelist from Georgia, was referring to when he suggested that they were educated beyond their intelligence. Unfortunately, for some, the degree is the evidence of their intelligence. The most impressive people to me, with or without a degree, are those who are problem solvers, who think objectively and take positions based on facts. If I hear someone say "the fact is I think" I immediately suspect that they have a weak argument. Ideally, one should evolve from the hypothesis to the thesis based upon facts and evidence. How often does one see another adapt a position without thinking and try to make an argument to support the position? One sees it in politics frequently.

Jim

It's called "critical thinking" and today most colleges emphasize it. Try to get through a good school with poor reasoning skills. In fact try and do a simple physics momentum problem without the ability to critically think. People who can't drop out like flies.
Do people who couldn't find a cross in church get through college? Sure. Do people who never took a college course become successes. Sure. It's the individual, school can only teach you so much but the person who can critically think enhances his chance by going through school. You get to find out what's out there and the opportunity to find a field that you truly enjoy. Maybe you'll spend your life as a plumber in your fathers business but you never see that you could have had the life of biologist or anthropologist which you might really enjoy. That's what college can do for you.

Rob

 

[Jim Thompson]

It's called "critical thinking" and today most colleges emphasize it. Try to get through a good school with poor reasoning skills. In fact try and do a simple physics momentum problem without the ability to critically think. People who can't drop out like flies.
Do people who couldn't find a cross in church get through college? Sure. Do people who never took a college course become successes. Sure. It's the individual, school can only teach you so much but the person who can critically think enhances his chance by going through school. You get to find out what's out there and the opportunity to find a field that you truly enjoy. Maybe you'll spend your life as a plumber in your fathers business but you never see that you could have had the life of biologist or anthropologist which you might really enjoy. That's what college can do for you.

Rob

I agree. It is called "critical thinking" and is probably taught in most of the better schools. There are at least two classes of colleges - one ,the recognized traditional colleges and the other is the free enterprise system at work. I've attended and benefited from both, but there is no comparison. The one thing that I left out of my earlier post was that regardless of one's ability, one could reasonably expect to be more successful after attending college whether or not one graduates. But, it all depends upon the person. As an older fellow advised me when I enlisted in the military in1962 - it is what you make of it. So true in every facet of life.

Jim

 

[Rob-D]

As an older fellow advised me when I enlisted in the military in1962 - it is what you make of it. So true in every facet of life.

Jim

You've got that right! Life is what you make of it.
When I was a kid in the Navy (late sixties) I got tested and was found to be high in mechanical skills, math and physics so I got to go to electronics school in the Great Lakes. After that I got my choice of duty station (I did pretty good in the school) and had a great several years along with the GI bill to pay for my college. One of the first things I saw was that the guys in the Navy who had educations and skills had a much easier time and a lot more avenues open to them. I didn't have to stand watches or inspections, paint hulls, swab decks or work in the galley. That's when I realized that educating yourself had some great benefits that I carried through the rest of my life.
I have a brother who's no dope and always wanted to be a sports writer. He was good at it and was the youngest sports editor of his college paper but he foolishly screwed around and quite school. He spent his life as a painting contractor and regretted his whole life that he never finished school and got a job in sports casting or writing.
We're old farts now and when I look back I have no regrets. I stuck with my love of electronics my whole life and now my articles and designs are all over the world.

Rob

 

[Jim Thompson]

You've got that right! Life is what you make of it.
When I was a kid in the Navy (late sixties) I got tested and was found to be high in mechanical skills, math and physics so I got to go to electronics school in the Great Lakes. After that I got my choice of duty station (I did pretty good in the school) and had a great several years along with the GI bill to pay for my college. One of the first things I saw was that the guys in the Navy who had educations and skills had a much easier time and a lot more avenues open to them. I didn't have to stand watches or inspections, paint hulls, swab decks or work in the galley. That's when I realized that educating yourself had some great benefits that I carried through the rest of my life.
I have a brother who's no dope and always wanted to be a sports writer. He was good at it and was the youngest sports editor of his college paper but he foolishly screwed around and quite school. He spent his life as a painting contractor and regretted his whole life that he never finished school and got a job in sports casting or writing.
We're old farts now and when I look back I have no regrets. I stuck with my love of electronics my whole life and now my articles and designs are all over the world.

Rob

The only regret that I have is not getting the education sooner. I retired as a senior enlisted and although I'm comfortable enough, I often think of how much more money I would have made had I gotten a commission. I have an electronics background as well, started in the USAF and finished as an analyst with the USN. Thought that the Navy provided much more opportunity. Had a very satisfying career with the only regret being not doing better. I long since learned not to dwell on things I cannot control and I'm thankful to have done as well as I did.

Jim

 

[/pine]

...Louis Grizzard...

(Lewis)

Truly a "Great American" and probably one of the most natural wits ever...
I miss him dearly...

"Chili Dawgs Always Bark at Night"

more for anyone interested and not familiar...
lewis grizzard - Google Search

 

[brin]

(Lewis)

Truly a "Great American" and probably one of the most natural wits ever...
I miss him dearly...

"Chili Dawgs Always Bark at Night"

more for anyone interested and not familiar...
lewis grizzard - Google Search

Lewis and his beloved dog Catfish are watching us all now...he was a real gem..I miss him

 

[easygo]

I would say bashing the diversity of education is a sad thing. The usefulness of some courses in real life is questionable, but YOU HAVE THE OPTION TO CHOOSE!!! In my younger days while taking A.P. engineering classes in high school the teacher (structural engineer) said that:
"Most of what you learn here you will or would be able to look up in books in real life. So. In years to come all you have to remember is where we can find the books."
I didn't become an engineer but I'm glad I took those classes.

It seems that some of you guys may have taken my comments as a challenge to proving usefulness of higher education or a defense of weird courses. All I meant to say that I would be thankful for having the options and that is all. When and - more importantly WHERE - I went to school there were no options in classes. I had to study a certain language or subject because it was part of the program designed for completing the education I signed up for. It was decided for me and everyone else... period!!! Granted I feel like some of the courses listed in the original post are beyond strange, but I'm sure most people who sign up for such classes realize that too. One of the best things about this is diversity in education, experience and even right here on this very board where we are discussing different views expressed in a well reasoned and civil manner.

Having been out of school for nearly 20 years and swerved way off the course put ahead of me by my original education I have no regrets and I retained interest in everything mechanical. One of my former class mates is the boss of 40 guys at a manufacturing facility and he never went anywhere after high school and I'm not the boss of anyone. Go figure...

 

[SpringHollow]

Interesting article: Invest In Yourself With A College Education


"The Math is Simple
According to information released by the U.S. Census Bureau in January 2008, workers with a college degree earn nearly twice as much as those without one. Census data indicates that the earnings of the average worker who is at least 25 years old and has a high school diploma is $33,419 per year. The average earnings of a similar worker armed with a bachelor's degree is $58,866. Over the course of a 40-year career, that's roughly $1.4 million for the high school graduate and $2.4 million for the college graduate.

Watch Wages Increase by Degrees
While just about any degree will help your earnings prospects, more education generally equates to more money. Over the course of a working career, an associate's degree is worth about $1.7 million, a bachelor's degree is worth $2.4 million, a master's degree is worth $2.9 million, a doctorate is worth $4.2 million, and a professional degree is worth $4.8 million.

Of course, like any investment, some are better than others. A degree in basket weaving, Renaissance art or golf is likely to result in significantly lower earnings than a degree in information technology, business or the health sciences. Choosing your major wisely is a lot like selecting an appropriate investment for your long-term portfolio. In other words, you need to choose something that dovetails with your goals and has a realistic opportunity to provide the return on investment that you are anticipating."

It doesn't prove that a degree is needed but it does show it can be cost effective. Having said that, when hiring, I consider the person much more important than the resume.

Ken

 

[drgill]

I agree that education after high school is necessary. I also believe that four year degrees are becoming overpriced. There is nothing wrong with choosing a vocational school and learning a trade. I suspect that someone with a trade such as air conditioning or an electrician will earn as much or more than someone with a four year degree in psychology (besides being more useful to society). One of the ladies I ride the vanpool with has a daughter in college (she is paying the bill). This lady is already talking about sending her daughter to a vocational school to learn how to perform Ultrasounds so she has a marketable skill after graduation. That to me is insane. When my two kids are ready for college they will go to community college for the first two years and then head off to a state university.

 

[Obed]

When my two kids are ready for college they will go to community college for the first two years and then head off to a state university.

drgill, that's a solid plan. Community colleges tend to be much less expensive than the 4 year schools and with proper planning the courses will all transfer to the 4 year school. When I was working on my engineering degree, I would go to school for 3 months (one quarter) and then work fulltime for the next 3 months, alternate quarters between school and work. While working, I took some courses at night at the local community college.

Obed