OP
For the Electricians in our TBN neighborhood...
- Thread starter RichT
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EddieWalker
Epic Contributor
I'm no electrician, and California Code is about as tough as it comes, so ignore what I have to say, it's just for discussion.
There are underground juction boxes that are designed for joining wires underground. They have water proof lids to seal everything up where you make the connnection.
The one I'm familiar with has a metal tube with bolts on the sides. You slide the different wires in each side, bolt them down and put it back into the box. They you fill the box with silicone and seal it up.
I've only seen the ones fo individual wires but heard of the ones for multiple lines. Same principle from what I understand.
If you was really a wild and crazy guy, you could just get an outside grey plastic junction box, wire nut or bolt the wires together and seal the box up with silicone, seal it up and bury it. 50 years from now it will still work just fine.
Just dont' tell your neighbors, friends, familiy or local county inspector what you did. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Eddie
There are underground juction boxes that are designed for joining wires underground. They have water proof lids to seal everything up where you make the connnection.
The one I'm familiar with has a metal tube with bolts on the sides. You slide the different wires in each side, bolt them down and put it back into the box. They you fill the box with silicone and seal it up.
I've only seen the ones fo individual wires but heard of the ones for multiple lines. Same principle from what I understand.
If you was really a wild and crazy guy, you could just get an outside grey plastic junction box, wire nut or bolt the wires together and seal the box up with silicone, seal it up and bury it. 50 years from now it will still work just fine.
Just dont' tell your neighbors, friends, familiy or local county inspector what you did. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
Eddie
mudcat
Platinum Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( but I don't see running a neut or a ground.
It should work fine, and I think its even legal, to run new ground rods right at your barn. Then 2 #6's should be no problem to run. )</font>
PLEASE USE THE GROUND AND NEUTRAL!
It should work fine, and I think its even legal, to run new ground rods right at your barn. Then 2 #6's should be no problem to run. )</font>
PLEASE USE THE GROUND AND NEUTRAL!
Cityboyfarmer
Gold Member
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</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Re the electrical thing, I think my best bet is to pull 6/6/6/10 wire through the existing 3/4 conduit (tight, but I believe its NEC compliant), and then just extend the underground service line to the barn. )</font>
If the PVC conduit is schedule 40, you can do it using THHN insulated conductors. ( I wouldn't want to.) If it is schedule 80, you can't. The code allows for splices. Make sure you purchase splicing materials listed for direct burial.
If it were me, I would get a trencher and run 1" or larger conduit, or install direct burial cable. If you have a friend who is an electrician, ask him to help you. You might also consider hiring a licensed elecrtician, especially if permits and inspections are required. Some jurisdictions will allow home owners to do their own wiring with a H.O. permit. The electrical inspection is for your own safety and the safety of your family and others who will use the barn.
Lots of home owners are capable of doing quality electrical installations, however, I have volumes of horror stories concerning DIY wiring. Not to lecture, but please make sure you know what you are doing and do it safely.
If the PVC conduit is schedule 40, you can do it using THHN insulated conductors. ( I wouldn't want to.) If it is schedule 80, you can't. The code allows for splices. Make sure you purchase splicing materials listed for direct burial.
If it were me, I would get a trencher and run 1" or larger conduit, or install direct burial cable. If you have a friend who is an electrician, ask him to help you. You might also consider hiring a licensed elecrtician, especially if permits and inspections are required. Some jurisdictions will allow home owners to do their own wiring with a H.O. permit. The electrical inspection is for your own safety and the safety of your family and others who will use the barn.
Lots of home owners are capable of doing quality electrical installations, however, I have volumes of horror stories concerning DIY wiring. Not to lecture, but please make sure you know what you are doing and do it safely.
slowzuki
Elite Member
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If he breaks the tie strap in the panel at the new barn, he could put in a grounding rod there too and just tie the ... hmm, neutral back? I'd have to reread up on it, just make sure the tie strap in the new panel from the neutrals to the grounds is set the right way for how you wire or you'll get some nice currents in there that aren't cool.
There are many articles out there on the topic of bonding subpanels.
There are many articles out there on the topic of bonding subpanels.
OP
RichT
Silver Member
cityboy...conduit is sked40, so codewise I believe I'm OK, altho the prospects of pulling 3#6&1#10 through 100ft+ of 3/4 conduit is not particularly attractive-maybe a job for my tractor; if I did manage to pull it I wouldn't need a splice as I'd run enough line to reach from the main to subpanel.
and, YES, I will run both a ground and neutral no matter what I do
and, YES, I will run both a ground and neutral no matter what I do
Inspector507
Super Member
RichT,
In one post you mentioned pulling new wire was not practical. Then in a follow-up post you mentioned pulling new 6/6/6/10.
There is no approved splice for THWN conductors underground because they are not permitted to be run underground without conduit. However, you could bring the existing conduit up into an accessible PVC box and make a splice there. By accessible I meant the lid or cover.
The 3 #6's with a #10 ground will fit in a ¾" PVC, as far as the NEC® is concerned.
If you plan to extend the conduit all the way in one run, and pull new wire, the NEC® allows only three wires to be run, if you do some different grounding at the separate structure. My choice would be for all four wires. That choice is up to you though. A new grounding electrode is required at the separate building no matter which way you go.
All of the above info is the way we do it here in Ohio, according to the 2005 NEC®. Your area may differ. Please check with your local code authority if there is one. I do know that Cal. has a whole different set of codes/rules. And I'm sure you'll get responses that differ from mine...... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Do what you feel comfortable with.
In one post you mentioned pulling new wire was not practical. Then in a follow-up post you mentioned pulling new 6/6/6/10.
There is no approved splice for THWN conductors underground because they are not permitted to be run underground without conduit. However, you could bring the existing conduit up into an accessible PVC box and make a splice there. By accessible I meant the lid or cover.
The 3 #6's with a #10 ground will fit in a ¾" PVC, as far as the NEC® is concerned.
If you plan to extend the conduit all the way in one run, and pull new wire, the NEC® allows only three wires to be run, if you do some different grounding at the separate structure. My choice would be for all four wires. That choice is up to you though. A new grounding electrode is required at the separate building no matter which way you go.
All of the above info is the way we do it here in Ohio, according to the 2005 NEC®. Your area may differ. Please check with your local code authority if there is one. I do know that Cal. has a whole different set of codes/rules. And I'm sure you'll get responses that differ from mine...... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Do what you feel comfortable with.
Spiffy
Veteran Member
Thanks for dusting the cobwebs from my brain, Inspector! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Yeah leaving out neutral would be a bad idea...don't know how I actually do anything right around here and then type about it competely wrong. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
That would negate just the ground and leave 3 #6's: in which case I guess the #10 is pretty neglegible to pull along with it, so it does become a matter of personal preference.
Yeah leaving out neutral would be a bad idea...don't know how I actually do anything right around here and then type about it competely wrong. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
That would negate just the ground and leave 3 #6's: in which case I guess the #10 is pretty neglegible to pull along with it, so it does become a matter of personal preference.
Inspector507
Super Member
I wondered if you got hit in the head recently....... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
mudcat
Platinum Member
The NEC states that " Listed boxes shall be permitted where covered by gravel, light aggergate, or noncohesive granulated soil if their location is effectively identified and accessible for excavation." Yes, you can burry a box.
