kubotabilly
Gold Member
RichT,
Is that a 1968 Dodge Coronet/RT in the background???
Bill
Is that a 1968 Dodge Coronet/RT in the background???
Bill
For the Electricians in our TBN neighborhood...
- Thread starter RichT
- Start date
- Views: 4388
AntrimMan
Gold Member
Rich,
you may want to be satisfied with the 50A breaker and save a few $ on the 60A. I may be wrong but I think runs over 100' require that you de-rate the conductor by one size, so the 6 becomes an 8 again and the 50A is complimentary. Pulling 8/8/8/10 through 120' of 3/4 conduit is not an easy job. You will need to pull and someone will need to push as well. I sure hope it is a mostly straight run with few bends. Don't use the tractor, you want to "feel" the pull and do the back and forth action if you get snagged in a poor joint. As far as pulling lube goes, the local HD or Lowes has the stuff, I'd also check with local clergy to get some holy water just in case.
Leaving one of the original conductors in the conduit for the purpose of pulling is a good idea but separating it fron the others may not be easy. You can suck a line through with a shop vac if need be.
There are transmitter/reciever sets that are used to locate buried pipes, I think that would work if connectecd to one conductor. The conductor sets up a field and the reciever is swept along above ground and will locate the field. I used to use one to locate metallic services when with the gas company, I don't know if they are available at rental centers but you could ask what they suggest to use. I have tried poking into the ground with a rod but the stones drove me crazy and I'm still there.
Hope this helps.
Never trust a curly haired electrician.
All the best,
Martin
you may want to be satisfied with the 50A breaker and save a few $ on the 60A. I may be wrong but I think runs over 100' require that you de-rate the conductor by one size, so the 6 becomes an 8 again and the 50A is complimentary. Pulling 8/8/8/10 through 120' of 3/4 conduit is not an easy job. You will need to pull and someone will need to push as well. I sure hope it is a mostly straight run with few bends. Don't use the tractor, you want to "feel" the pull and do the back and forth action if you get snagged in a poor joint. As far as pulling lube goes, the local HD or Lowes has the stuff, I'd also check with local clergy to get some holy water just in case.
Leaving one of the original conductors in the conduit for the purpose of pulling is a good idea but separating it fron the others may not be easy. You can suck a line through with a shop vac if need be.
There are transmitter/reciever sets that are used to locate buried pipes, I think that would work if connectecd to one conductor. The conductor sets up a field and the reciever is swept along above ground and will locate the field. I used to use one to locate metallic services when with the gas company, I don't know if they are available at rental centers but you could ask what they suggest to use. I have tried poking into the ground with a rod but the stones drove me crazy and I'm still there.
Hope this helps.
Never trust a curly haired electrician.
All the best,
Martin
Cowboyjg
Silver Member
Spikers suggestion of pulling 3 of the 4 wires leaving one to pull the new wire with is a good idea. Leave one of the 6's if you can as it is stronger than the 10. Invest in a jug of slime to lube the new wire thru the conduit also. Will make the going a little easier.
mudcat
Platinum Member
#8 is only good for 40 amps,#6 is good for 55. Watch your breaker size!
Junkman
Super Member
After reading all this, I believe that the best line of attack is to find a place that you can run a 3" conduit from the house to the barn and install a proper wire to carry 100 amps. You will never regret it after it is done. Also while the trench is open you can put in a conduit for telephone and internet connections. You might even want to put water out to the barn for the times when you want to wash your hands. If you must go through the wifes garden, consider a shower instead, because you might be living out there for a while...... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
mudcat
Platinum Member
Junkman,
I like the way you think. RichT probably wouldn't mind spending time in his dog house. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif It is one nice looking pole barn, isn't it.
I like the way you think. RichT probably wouldn't mind spending time in his dog house. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif It is one nice looking pole barn, isn't it.
OP
RichT
Silver Member
Bill - thats a 70 Sport Satellite, my daughters driver. Theres also a 70 Road Runner convertible waiting for me to finish the barn so it can be restored.
Martin - part of my challenge is I don't know how many bends in the existing line (one of the reasons I want to locate it). I can deduce number of bends from the landscape, but it they used some weird UG conduit architecture - well - thx for your suggestions!
Junkman - I'd do exactly what you said if possible. Unfortunately besides running right under my wifes prized garden (somewhere) and a nearly as prized tree, the existing line skirts the west side of my home for about 70ft, inaccessible by my backhoe and under an existing 4in drain line. Huge job to take out both the drain line and conduit run by hand in confined area.
Martin - part of my challenge is I don't know how many bends in the existing line (one of the reasons I want to locate it). I can deduce number of bends from the landscape, but it they used some weird UG conduit architecture - well - thx for your suggestions!
Junkman - I'd do exactly what you said if possible. Unfortunately besides running right under my wifes prized garden (somewhere) and a nearly as prized tree, the existing line skirts the west side of my home for about 70ft, inaccessible by my backhoe and under an existing 4in drain line. Huge job to take out both the drain line and conduit run by hand in confined area.
One thing you need to be very careful of is pulling any wire thru a long PVC conduit. The PVC, where any elbows are concerned (such as where it turns up to come out of ghe ground), is very easily "cut" by the pulling wire. It is NOT recommended to use something like a tractor to pull the wire, you will almost certainly pull the wire right thru the conduit.
I'm a licensed professional engineer and the NEC does not have "distance" limitations on wire sizes, but there are voltage drop problems which occur with loads over distance, but that is all a factor of the electrical load, and the distance of the wire. You should be carefull to look at your expected load of the barn, and perhaps pull a new service (100 amps is a good starting point) that you will know is adequate, and sized for your expected use.
The best advise I think is applicable is to get the assistance of someone who is knowledgable of sizing the needed service, and also pulling wires (a local electrical contractor is a good starting point). I've seen many situations where someone has pulled an old wire out of a conduit to quickly and destroyed a PVC conduit. Many times the pulling of the old wire is more problematic than putting in the new because the old wire does not have wire lubricant (I STRONGLY recommend using wire lubricant, NOT ORDINARY GREASE), for pulling the new wire.
Be careul and I recommend getting some local expertise to assist in this type of situation.
Todd
I'm a licensed professional engineer and the NEC does not have "distance" limitations on wire sizes, but there are voltage drop problems which occur with loads over distance, but that is all a factor of the electrical load, and the distance of the wire. You should be carefull to look at your expected load of the barn, and perhaps pull a new service (100 amps is a good starting point) that you will know is adequate, and sized for your expected use.
The best advise I think is applicable is to get the assistance of someone who is knowledgable of sizing the needed service, and also pulling wires (a local electrical contractor is a good starting point). I've seen many situations where someone has pulled an old wire out of a conduit to quickly and destroyed a PVC conduit. Many times the pulling of the old wire is more problematic than putting in the new because the old wire does not have wire lubricant (I STRONGLY recommend using wire lubricant, NOT ORDINARY GREASE), for pulling the new wire.
Be careul and I recommend getting some local expertise to assist in this type of situation.
Todd
LarryD
Veteran Member
Be very careful if you do this, but some water down the conduit and letting it soak for a hour or so can loosen up anything that's hardened up, like Yellow 77.
After you get the wires out, pull a rag through to clean out the conduit as best you can. Before you pull in the new, squeeze a generous amount of WIRE lubricant in the conduit to get things going and keep adding until the wires are in.
P.S. Disconnect the wire before you pour the water in the conduit. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
After saying this, I would look at every angle I could think of to increase the service, I'd bet you'll trip the breaker if the compressor kick on while burning some rod. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
After you get the wires out, pull a rag through to clean out the conduit as best you can. Before you pull in the new, squeeze a generous amount of WIRE lubricant in the conduit to get things going and keep adding until the wires are in.
P.S. Disconnect the wire before you pour the water in the conduit. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif
After saying this, I would look at every angle I could think of to increase the service, I'd bet you'll trip the breaker if the compressor kick on while burning some rod. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif
Cityboyfarmer
Gold Member
- Joined
- May 13, 2005
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- Macon, Ga.
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- Kubota B8200D; JD 5205 MFWD w/522 Loader
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Never trust a curly haired electrician. )</font>
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif BWAH!HA!HA!HA!
How about one with rapidly thinning hair? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Good one Martin!
/forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif BWAH!HA!HA!HA!
How about one with rapidly thinning hair? /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Good one Martin!
