Ford 1700 3 pt lift problem

[JC-jetro]

Yup. agreed. I hope they come through.

 

[Marinemammal]

Legacy Hydraulics has a one year warrantee policy. They offered to look at the pump and see what it needs. But I was cautioned that parts are not readily available, and those repair kits are often not compatible with after-market pumps. They do have a new pump to sell me though.

I have taken the pump apart and it seems to have a little more wear than the original pump. A friend, with more experience than me, looked at them and didn't see any reason that they would not pump. He suggested looking at the gear that drives the pump, but it looks fine to me. My next move would be to find a shop that can test the pump.

 

[JC-jetro]

Legacy Hydraulics has a one year warrantee policy. They offered to look at the pump and see what it needs. But I was cautioned that parts are not readily available, and those repair kits are often not compatible with after-market pumps. They do have a new pump to sell me though.

I have taken the pump apart and it seems to have a little more wear than the original pump. A friend, with more experience than me, looked at them and didn't see any reason that they would not pump. He suggested looking at the gear that drives the pump, but it looks fine to me. My next move would be to find a shop that can test the pump.

any pics? don't know what he shop can do as far as testing that you could not do with the pump on the tractor. if suction screen and pump inlet is open then can't see that could be the problem. Let's double check on the relief valve, Do you see n the pic below when you removed the and cleaned the inside?

A worn out pump can pump some but may not be able to make good pressure. You tested the pump with the discharge banjo at the relief devise removed and it pumped not very much . That is the tell tale sign. shop testing it is another expense that might not give you anything back. So , what's legacy issue with giving a warranty and then saying can guarantee the overhaul kit. The same dang pump is on fleabay for $500 or so. The pump case appears verbatim the same as mine and that seal does not requires rocket science to create. Did you have it beyond 1 year. Like i suggested before, if the new pump seems worn out around the case and gear than one year old seal might not be bad to put back in the orignal pump and try. Buying the another pump should be the absolute last resort but what caused damage to original two, that need to be figured out to avoid 3rd failure.

 

[Marinemammal]

I've had new pump 3 years/60 hours. The only thing Legacy offered was to look at the pump and maybe say what is wrong. They don't sell the kit, but I was warned that an OEM kit might not be right for the pump they sold me. They are very similar, although the bushing pieces are one unit instead of in halves. I will look at the regulator and get some photos of the pump. I had to be gone yesterday.

 

[JC-jetro]

Ok. I understand that the innards of the NON OEM and seal kit might be different than the OEM. The point is they are selling Non OEM pumps that somebody manufactures including the seals. Are they saying thy can't even provide seal kit for their non oem pump? that would be ridiculous if they can't. I think they should be able to procure overhaul kit for what they sell.

 

[Marinemammal]

Here are some photos of the inside of the pump. The photo of the wear marks on the inside of the body are on the intake side. The output side is smooth. The scratches on the sides of the bushings and the gear wear marks are much worse than the wear marks on the old pump. The gear teeth are more worn as well.

 

[JC-jetro]

I downloaded the pics and zoomed in. The side of both bushings that face the gears looked scuffed up in concentric motion. That could be caused with no oil film or derbies in the fluid. Most likely pump suffered inlet side restriction due to partially plugged screen or damaged screen allowing dirt to be sucked in the pump. My 30 year old tractor pump looked better when my lift stopped working. Even then the pump was pumping but not as strong. Having live hydraulic as soon as I could I took the tractor to the barn and never ran till I get the lift seal done. Then the pump would work but a bit slow was when I decided to look at the inside. No irreversible damage was done by then. Your non oem seal appears to be different. Non oem looks flat but mine was a bit round and fatter to fit tighter. On oem there was a nylon backer to add structural stability to the seal. I think overall, oem seems of a better design. If it were my money I would look for repair kit for oem rather than buying another non-oem. if the gear are scuffed up then I can't see even new seal would help. Gear pump are robust but they sure need clean oil and very tight tolerances to be able to make pressure. I don't know what else legacy can do by looking at the pump. Ddi yy send them the picture to get their professional opinion as pump is all they do? I suppose there is no harm getting a 1000 grit emery cloth and try to buff the groovs with a bit of the oil and put it back together and would give it a last go.

JC,

PS. when I zoomed in it looked to me one of the bushing seal had a bit of cut or damaged, is that so?

 

[Marinemammal]

I didn't remove the regulator from the tractor, but took it all apart and found all the pieces just like in your photo.

There is one symptom of this problem that I don't think I mentioned. When all the hydraulics are working, I could turn the tractor off and let the bucket down by just pushing on the lever. But as the problem starts to show itself, the bucket would no longer go down on it's own with the engine off. I would have to put it in the float position and then put some weight on it to make it go down. The oil from the cylinder should flow easily back to the transmission. But as the piston in the hydraulic cylinder dumped the oil back, then the other side of the piston would have to suck some fluid from where? Through the pump?

 

[JC-jetro]

Hmm, that is a new twist. I know my loader has an over pressure regulator that opens and release pressure line back to the tank. This is to avoid deadheading the pump and causing the main relief valve to lift, dump the pressure which always causes a chatter that you categorized it as hydraulic noise. You do have spool valve for you loader as well. There would pressure line to each side of the loader for two cyllinder to curl and two to lift. They have a return line to the spool and then back to the tank. You must be able to dump the pressure with tractor off unless oil is trapped in the cylinder due to restriction on return flow. Return would not be through the pump. Pump only suck and discharges fluid. Return to tank always happens at a control valve normally have spools to direct flow to different ports.

 

[Marinemammal]

There is an adjustable regulator (similar to the relief valve discussed above--spool valve?) built into the loader control block on the inlet side. The tractor has been sitting outside and I wanted to move it inside, but needed to chain the bucket off the ground. I put the loader lift lever on float and tried to jack up the bucket, and it moved a little but mostly it wanted to lift the front wheels off the ground. With up pressure on the bucket I tried pulling the lever to lift, but that didn't work either. I have got it up far enough to move it inside, but can't understand why I could not get some oil movement in the lift cylinders. The loader valve return line goes into the block that is in between the main relief valve and the control valve side cover.

I couldn't find any damage or cut to the bushing seal on the pump--which picture were you looking at? And the original pump does have the nylon backer for the bushing seal like yours and the Legacy pump does not. I think I will send photos to Legacy to see what their response would be.