Ford 1920 clutch Help needed

[JC-jetro]

An inch and a quarter of pedal freeplay won't endanger the pressure plate fingers or the release bearing.

Rick,

What I meant is you can so over adjust it to where bearing is touching the finger, that is bad. As long as bearing is not touching the finger and as close as 1/4" is yet okay, you just get to squeeze the plate a bit more.

JC,

 

[TCBoomer]

Thanks for the good info JC!
I've been searching on the forum for Ford 1920 and clutch but will do more with PTO. Once I figure out which clutch I have I'll try to order one.
There's no big rush to fix it except I'd like to be using it to move a shed, logs (future firewood) ,regrade the yard (Mostly sand) and transplanting mature shrubs.
For the next week or so I'm going to try to educate myself, read the repair manual when I get it (a couple of days)and get myself knowledgeable enough to do this repair. Then order the parts and get to it!

Thanks again JC. If anyone has any other advice to offer I would really appreciate it. This forum is a lifesaver!

Mike

If you have the mechanical ability...like being able to replace a clutch in a car or truck...and your basic hand tools along with the manual, you'll be fine. You should get a clutch alignment tool as JC suggested. You can buy a universal one at your local parts store. If you purchase the clutch at a dealer, maybe they'll loan you one? Won't hurt to ask, even if you have to leave a small deposit. If you do run into a problem, there's enough knowledgeable folks here that can walk you through most issues.

I would suggest getting an engine crane or setup a tripod with a chainfall(sp?). Also be sure to get plenty of caps to seal off any open hydraulic lines. You need to be sure to keep any dirt from entering the system. In a pinch, a rubber band and some plastic bags will also work. After you remove the sheet metal and have the driveline exposed, see if there's any dirt buildup present. It would be advisable to clean it off...a little simple green and water or just compressed air will work.

Here's a few pics of what you can expect...it's not a 1920, but my TC24DA and will give you an idea of what to expect.

Good luck

 

[MIkeWard]

TC, JC and Rick thanks so much for all of the great info.
I feel pretty confidant that I can do this repair.

TC the pictures are awesome. I'm going to bring them into Photoshop and enlarge them to get a really good look at everything!

The PTO not disengaging right now is not a priority issue.
I'm not really using it. Right now my needs are for the loader and backhoe. But since the clutch is so weak (I can move around on flat ground) I'm just gonna stop using it except to get everything positioned for the repair. It will be outdoors on my sons half basketball court (blacktop) will rig a cover over tractor.

Speaking of them I think I need to remove them both before I attempt to split the tractor. I have not done this before. The backhoe seems like it would be simpler. Use support arms and bucket to form a tripod uncouple and drive away. I'll try that first.
It seems like I'll need something to lift the loader arms off the side supports and then unhook hydraulics and back away.

Rick thanks for A&I's website. No dealers are close to me. Pine plains might be the closest. I don't know if they'll ship? I'll check

I looked at the HyCapacity website and saw the clutch parts but can't seem to find a dealer listing just warehouses. Will keep looking

Guys again thanks for the good info . It helps a great deal.
I'm learning a lot and hope to get this done soon. Right now I'm learning from all of you, gathering knowledge, getting setup in yard, waiting for repair manual and soon will get going on repair.

Mike

 

[RickB]

Pine Plains Tractor & Equipment is a dealer for New Holland, A&I, and HyCapacity among many others. We ship parts out every day, and can direct ship from some of our vendor's warehouses.
When you disconnect the hoe, use the bucket and stabilizers as you suggest, then move the tractor away just far enough so you can lower the main frame to the ground so the weight of the attachment is not borne by the stabilizers or bucket.

 

[MIkeWard]

TC, JC and Rick Thanks again for your posts and help.

I spoke with the local NH parts guy today (Malvese Equipment Riverhead NY) and he strongly recommended against replacing only transmission disc and pilot and release bearings. His explanation was that in his experience all the parts in the clutch are wearing and aging at the same time and If I just replaced the PTo and transmission disc , I could find poor performance or shortened life and have to split tractor again for another repair. To me this made sense.
They do not deal with HyCapacity but have another source for rebuilt clutches. I'll call today to try to find price and who it's from.
An OEM clutch is out of the question at $1,000 with $100 for bearings and would only be guaranteed if I had them install bringing total to near $3,000.
I asked about getting a clutch alignment tool FNH00078, he did not quote a price but said the take forever to get from NHolland. I should ask if they would loan it with a deposit. I'll also look into a universal alignment tool one at your local parts store.
The repair manual suggests the need of a tool to remove the pilot bearing.Is it necessary? Should I plan on replacing the pilot and release bearings no matter what condition the seem to be in and order them before starting just to have all parts on hand?

Mike

 

[JC-jetro]

TC, JC and Rick Thanks again for your posts and help.

I spoke with the local NH parts guy today (Malvese Equipment Riverhead NY) and he strongly recommended against replacing only transmission disc and pilot and release bearings. His explanation was that in his experience all the parts in the clutch are wearing and aging at the same time and If I just replaced the PTo and transmission disc , I could find poor performance or shortened life and have to split tractor again for another repair. To me this made sense.


Mike

Hey Mike,

I agree in principal with what the NH guy said but believe exception can be made. What Rick said is correct if the operator is experienced, careful operating his rig. I have couple of pics below that show the inners of a busted system. You can easily see if a guy is riding on clutch pedal all the time, release bearing may constantly touch the fingers on the pressure plate, continue that and you have destroyed the pressure plate. Disk plate is softer than the flywheel surface or the pressure plate. if the clutching is done at lower RPM and not so abruptly (trying to burn tire like some teenagers do) then there much less wear on the pressure plate or fly wheel surface. The disk is made of wearable stuff used to be asbestos on a metal disk. The wear material is attached to the disk with combination of glue, pressure and "Rivets". if a guy grinds the disk plate surface all the way to the rivets obviously both surfaces of pressure plate and flywheel can be scored needing to be reground smooth, tolerances are tight and you can do very little resurface job. So with a rig in a fix that I explained it is a no brainer that they all needs to be replaced. You have to compare you time , the value you associated with that and cost of total or partial replacement and make your decision. For me, I will inspect it all after disassembly, if I see sign of major damage to pressure plate,only then I will replace. At the least I replace the disk and throwout bearing and most likely 80% of the time that is all needed. By the way taking the release bearing is not difficult, a prying tool may do it since you are not worrying about damage to bearing in that time. A puller (3 prong or 2 prong can be used as well). When you clean the bearing holder using an emery cloth (strip of sand paper works as well), and a bit of oil make installation of the bearing easier. You can use a pipe with the radius same as inner race of the bearing to gently tap it in.

JC,

 

[MIkeWard]

Thanks JC
That's some picture you posted
I'm going to get the whole rebuilt clutch
Messicks has it for $508.(HY-Capacity rebuilt)
Everyone else seems to want $1000
They also (HY-Capacity) have pilot bearing-$14.00 and Release bearing $55.00
I checked their website and called a rep and they don't have it in stock but will send if from Vender ups 22.00 shipping.
Is this deal too good to be true?
They said it was for a ford 1920.

Mike

 

[JC-jetro]

Thanks JC
That's some picture you posted
I'm going to get the whole rebuilt clutch
Messicks has it for $508.(HY-Capacity rebuilt)
Everyone else seems to want $1000
They also (HY-Capacity) have pilot bearing-$14.00 and Release bearing $55.00
I checked their website and called a rep and they don't have it in stock but will send if from Vender ups 22.00 shipping.
Is this deal too good to be true?
They said it was for a ford 1920.

Mike

I think it is pretty good deal for double clutch. Although, I have never bough anything from Messicks, I'm sure they are all right as I hear many folks deal with them here at TBN all the time. Got to have a good reason for that.

Good luck and keep us posted on your progress. JC,

P.s . By the way , nice looking rig you got there, a bit of TLC and it should serves you a long time.

 

[TCBoomer]

Mike
Here's another tip...get yourself a couple pieces of threaded rod or a couple long bolts. Thread them into the block or trans, which ever applies, and use them for alignment. When you roll the 2 half's back together and get them close, start the bolts into the corresponding holes.

Here's a pic of when I did mine. You can see one of them towards the bottom of the pic, next to the flywheel. The bolts I used could have been a few inches longer, but they still made a difference. Especially when working alone!

Good luck and take some pics

 

[MIkeWard]

I went to the local auto parts- Pep Boys and looked at a clutch universal alignment tool. $19.99 not bad
Does anyone know If I need metric or US.

I would assume metric and if no one knows I'll bring in the new pilot bearing when I get it and try it out to see for sure.

The NH dealer told me he has one on order for a year and still hasn't come in.

By the way there was also a $111.00 core charge on the clutch. They c alled back after I ordered it to add this. I just need to mail(UPS) it back to them for a refund. While he was on the phone He told me the list on the clutch was now $6)). and change but the honored the internet price for me since they were slow to update the price online, So far Messicks seems like a good company to deal with.

Mike