Ford 4000 pouring diesel (I think) from a strange place...

   / Ford 4000 pouring diesel (I think) from a strange place... #31  
i would check the hyds/rear end oil for similar emulsion.

Normally.. utf fluid has anti foaming qualities.. but as full as that ump is ( likely with water ). the oil can only do so much.. and with gear action.. that's alot of air and water entrainment.

I'd be surprised if a good diesel injection service shop didn't have crush washers.
 
   / Ford 4000 pouring diesel (I think) from a strange place... #32  
ps.. as to the seal integrety.. no way to know at this point.
 
   / Ford 4000 pouring diesel (I think) from a strange place...
  • Thread Starter
#33  
Sound- About those seals- SHHHH Dude, don't burst my dekusional happy bubble... The seals are going to be fine (waving my hand like a jedi)... I know I asked, I will be hopeful but realistic in my expectations...

Thanks for the rundown and suggestions sir! Your help has indeed been appreciated. I will get back with the results...
 
   / Ford 4000 pouring diesel (I think) from a strange place... #34  
uh.. may the force be with you.

;)
 
   / Ford 4000 pouring diesel (I think) from a strange place...
  • Thread Starter
#35  
Ah thought of another question for the group on this Ford 4000. Assuming water is getting in the Tranny, where would be the most likely place to start looking for the entry point, excluding the obvious like fill caps? I did read some condensation was possible, but not this much. We had our first hard rain in a few months last week and left her out, so, I am thinking this may have been the cause. Any input appreciated.
 
   / Ford 4000 pouring diesel (I think) from a strange place... #36  
I had a similar problem on my 4000. Found that water was getting in around the boots at the bottom of the shift levers. Replaced boots and problem was fixed.
 
   / Ford 4000 pouring diesel (I think) from a strange place... #37  
So let me understand. Are we saying the transmission got so much water in it, it frothed up and expanded, forcing the froth through the seals into the bell housing. The bell housing drain was plugged enough to where the bell housing filled up and then the froth forced it's way out the inspection hole on the top front of the bell housing?

Not disagreeing, just never thought the drain hole cotter pin hole could plug that solid such that the level could build that high. Unless someone plugged it with something to stop it from dripping.
 
   / Ford 4000 pouring diesel (I think) from a strange place... #38  
Water getting in past the shift boots is likely, my 861 had the same problem, but not as much as yours!
 
   / Ford 4000 pouring diesel (I think) from a strange place... #39  
x3 on the shift boot.

The bell housing drain was plugged enough to where the bell housing filled up and then the froth forced it's way out the inspection hole on the top front of the bell housing?

Not disagreeing, just never thought the drain hole cotter pin hole could plug that solid such that the level could build that high. Unless someone plugged it with something to stop it from dripping.

Thats why the cotter pin is usually there, to jiggle to make sure it drains. The bell-housing isnt a air-tight or water tight cavity. Crap gets in there. so crap + clutch dust + little oil seepage past the seals forms a pretty nice water-tight muck in the bottom.
 
   / Ford 4000 pouring diesel (I think) from a strange place... #40  
So let me understand. Are we saying the transmission got so much water in it, it frothed up and expanded, forcing the froth through the seals into the bell housing. The bell housing drain was plugged enough to where the bell housing filled up and then the froth forced it's way out the inspection hole on the top front of the bell housing?

Not disagreeing, just never thought the drain hole cotter pin hole could plug that solid such that the level could build that high. Unless someone plugged it with something to stop it from dripping.
Over time, it may build up so much crud in the bell housing that it reaches above the ends of the cotter pin and forms something like a felt mat.
Here is a problem from Tractor forum:
http://www.tractorforum.com/f203/what-leak-im-afraid-its-bad-ford-4500-photos-17863/
"...Even though it was spinning freely and not sludged up on the outside, when I poked a wire up past it a couple of times, oil started draining out...."

He had a leaking main seal and his Power Steering pump was leaking into the crankcase. The level in PS reservoir was sinking, no other level was sinking and oil was coming out of the inspection hole. Of course, the first idea was that PS-fluid was leaking into the bell housing somehow. They dyed the PS-fluid and the case was closed.

The inspection hole is situated near the bottom of the bell housing, so it does not take that much fluid to reach it, especially when the inside bottom surface is raised by crud. Here is a picture from a thread in another forum (http://www.mytractorforum.com/showthread.php?t=124755), that shows the steel "wall" that sits between the engine and the bell housing:
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b378/JBarca/Ford Tractor/endplate.jpg
The inspection hole is about eight o'clock from the crankshaft hole.


This case:
There is a cork "gasket" around the crankshaft hole. In the video it looks like the fluid is coming from above the timing cover and runs along the plate. That could be engine oil pressed between the cork arrangement, engine and plate. It would be interesting to see how it flows with the inspection hole cover removed. Perhaps no , or very little, oil has reached the bell housing? Therefore the clutch works fine.

The leaking fluid looks clear, the transmission fluid is a milky emulsion and it would not be clearer by being whipped around by the gear ring.

The leaking fluid smells of diesel and is therefore not likely transmission fluid.

Watered transmission fluid raised 2 inches during a day, later on we were informed that it probably was caused by rain.
If transmission fluid is expanding in the transmission case, would it not more easily use the openings where the water came in, rather then push through the sealings into bell housing?

Apart from a blow by, it could be diesel leaking from injection pump into crankcase, which gives the smell. Then a bad main seal causes the diesel smelling engine oil to escape.
But the engine oil is not smelling of diesel, as I get it?
Dyeing the engine oil confirms or excludes.
 

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