Ford Rant

[N80]

Let me just start out by saying that this isn't against Ford in general. This is about a single design flaw on a discontinued model. But it seems like a major mechanical and ergonomic goof up, but I've never heard any reports or problems from anyone else.

In any case, I have an '03 F-150, SuperCrew, 4x4 with the Triton V-8. It is the first American made vehicle I've ever purchased. I come from a background of small, Japanese 4x4 trucks which I just love. But, I needed a full size 4 door 4x4 and this was before Toyoto or Nissan had released theres. So, I kind of expected the worse of an American made vehicle. I still don't love this truck, however, it has been almost flawless after 50K miles. No problems at all. And it has done the things I wanted it to do and done them well.

However! The 4wd switch is the stupidest thing I've ever seen on a modern vehicle. It is the same size and shape as all the climate control switches and sits in a perfect line with them. The '4x4' indicator light is also just plain dumb, it is tiny and totally obscured by the steering wheel not matter what position its in.

The result? Well, about once or twice a year I think I'm turning the fan up when I'm switching into 4wd! And I usually don't notice until I start hearing a roaring from the diff or transfer case....or when I make a turn and the front wheels start chirping. The indicator light is useless.

So far I don't think I've done any major damage. I have noticed that this truck is much harder to turn when in 4wd even in soft stuff. I've heard this is normal for this truck, but I do wonder if I've made it worse.

The newer F-150s do not have this 'feature'. I can't believe this made it past the drawing board. It is such an obvious design flaw.

Quite frankly, I think these electric and vacuum acctuated 4x4 switches are for pansies. Whatever happend to a good old gear shift!?!?!

Okay, rant over. But if you ever pass a tall skinny guy looking at a pile of gears in the road behind a broken down black F-150......just keep on going.

(And before you GM guys chime in, what's with ever other GM truck having one daytime running light burned out? )

 

[BillyP]

(And before you GM guys chime in, what's with ever other GM truck having one daytime running light burned out? )

I don't know but it's a fact. Could be cheap China bulbs I guess

 

[Jimbrown]

Those factory driving lights are just poor. I think I had to replace all of mine in the first 6 months I owned both trucks. I think all fords are hard to steer in 4X4. My F250 feels like you turned the power steering off.

 

[LMTC]

02 Super Duty 250 XLT still in service and 03 150 XLT(sold this spring). Both supercrew (LOVE that space) 4x4, 5.4 engine. The 4x4 switch on the 150 is very poorly located--couldn't be much worse, actually. With that said....I have had several Ford 4x4s previously, the newst being a '92 I think. These two trucks have been as trouble free as the Toyotas (4 Corollas and 1 Sienna) I own and have owned. The 02 had a fuel gauge relay replaced and a 4wd fusible link or some such replaced, both under warranty. The 03 has had nothing but normal maintenance.

And I DO love these trucks. They are fun to drive (once I put good tires on) and handle & work well.

 

[Egon]

The chances may be real good that without paying attention any vehicle may be left in four wheel drive.

 

[N80]

The chances may be real good that without paying attention any vehicle may be left in four wheel drive.

Well sure. But, I was not talking about leaving it in 4wd. That is still an issue since the indicator light is for all intents and purposes non-existent and I've done that too. I'll take the credit for that oversight even with the terrible indicator light.

I'm talking about throwing it into 4wd going 50mph on pavement!

And, it really isn't an attention issue unless we are supposed to pull over and stop before turning the AC on or changing the radio station. Otherwise, it is suggested that our attention be divided amongst other important tasks, like driving. In general, a car's interior controls are designed to be operated while we drive and even the 4wd system is billed as 'shift on the fly'. With that being the case, the layout of those controls should be such that a switch that could potential drop your transfer case in the road or bind up a front axle should not be the same shape and size and right next to a switch whose function is to regulate the fan speed.

If they wanted that switch in that location it should have been 1) a totally different size, shape and type of switch or 2) provided with an extra step, such as a cover that has to be raised.

Of course, it may be that switching it into 4wd on the pavement at highway speeds isn't going to hurt anything and so my rant is much ado about nothing.....wouldn't be the first time. And so far it does not seem like I've torn anything up. But, that goes against everything I've learned about typical truck 4wd systems.

In any case, these sorts of oversights, inefficiences and examples of thoughtlessness just rub me the wrong way, often out of proportion to thier actual significance. But sometimes you just have to wonder, "What on earth were they thinking?"

And, like I've said, this truck has otherwise been exceedingly reliable, way beyond my expectations. However, in its current configuration (land yacht) it cannot compare with the 4wd capabilities and offroad handling of any of my lightly modified Nissan trucks. It will never be as agile as a small truck, but I hope to get bigger more aggressive tires soon as well as new shock and a few other mods and things will surely improve.

 

[turbo36]

Wow, just because the 4wd drive selector isn't a big red lever that say's " don't touch unless you really mean it" you are ready to write off the whole truck? Pretty tall order meetin' your standards.

 

[RoyJackson]

You got to know your vehicle, buddy...

I've worked in the automotive industry for years...those switches are placed with much care...however, they're placed considering the 85th percentile male (who is about 5'8", 185 lbs).

So, learn your vehicle and it's capabilities.

Ford makes an outstanding vehicle. They put a lot of effort into customer satisfaction.

 

[N80]

Wow, just because the 4wd drive selector isn't a big red lever that say's " don't touch unless you really mean it" you are ready to write off the whole truck? Pretty tall order meetin' your standards.

Oh please. Who said anything about writing it off? Read first, post second. I'll drive that truck, as I do any truck I own, until it falls apart or gets totaled.

 

[DieselPower]

Look at it this way. If your biggest complaint about the truck is the location of a single switch and light bulb your ahead of the game. I don't think I have ever owned a vehicle, come to think of it I don't think I have ever owned anything that I only had one little complaint about. It's usually major problems that seem to never go away. I wish my only problem was a switch location.

Edited to add: Here's a suggestion to fix your problem. Stop by Radio Shack or some other electronics supplier. Pick up a small mounted LED that operates at 12 VDC. Install the little LED in a easy to see location and hook it up to the 4WD light already in the dash. That way if you should happen to accidentally hit the 4WD switch you will be alerted to it by the little LED light that is not blocked.

 

[N80]

I've worked in the automotive industry for years...

Ah, that explains a lot. It wasn't at Ford by any chance was it?

those switches are placed with much care...

Roy, some of the worst ideas in the world have been planned with 'much care'. That makes this example worse, not better.

however, they're placed considering the 85th percentile male (who is about 5'8", 185 lbs).

That could explain the indicator light position, but not the switch position.

So, learn your vehicle and it's capabilities.

Again, what's with the preaching? This has nothing to do with 'learning' the vehicle. This has to do with placing identical switches with vastlly different functions right next to each other. Just dumb. No two ways about it.

Ford makes an outstanding vehicle. They put a lot of effort into customer satisfaction

Oh Roy, did YOU design that switch? I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. But let's get real, every automaker has its 'doh' moments. This isn't about Ford. Its about a simple, unarguably bad design feature in one Ford model. No need to get that brand loyalty blood boiling. When an automaker has no critics, you get...well, if you were in the auto industry you know what you get. You get Ford (GM, AMC, Dodge, etc) in the 1970's setting the table for the Japs to eat their lunch. Good, thoughtful criticism and competition are good for any manufacturer. So relax, put your gun and your gigantic fonts away and relax....buddy.

 

[N80]

Look at it this way. If your biggest complaint about the truck is the location of a single switch and light bulb your ahead of the game. I don't think I have ever owned a vehicle, come to think of it I don't think I have ever owned anything that I only had one little complaint about. It's usually major problems that seem to never go away. I wish my only problem was a switch location.

It was rather foolish, I suppose, to have said anything negative about a pickup truck here in tractor land.

The switch is hardly my only complaint. If you want a Road & Track, Consumer Reports or 4Wheel and Offroad style report on this truck I'll be happy to give it. Like you say, any vehicle, no matter the brand, will have issues. The point is, that this one is so stupid and so potentially dangerous. A 'things that make you go hmmm' sort of thing. Just like the one-eyed GM trucks. They just sort of defy explanation.

The fact is that humans drive trucks and cars (which is what all the American automakers forgot in the 70's and paid the price...still paying the price.) This is the one place, in this one truck, that they forgot again. This is a simple switch placement issue that could cause significant damage to the vehicle with just a simple, human mistake. If I mistake an adjacent switch and I turn the vent on instead of the fan, it does not damage the truck. If I turn the wipers on instead of the turn signal, it does not damage the truck.

It could have, and should have been done better. And, in the current model they didn't make the same mistake.

 

[N80]

Edited to add: Here's a suggestion to fix your problem. Stop by Radio Shack or some other electronics supplier. Pick up a small mounted LED that operates at 12 VDC. Install the little LED in a easy to see location and hook it up to the 4WD light already in the dash. That way if you should happen to accidentally hit the 4WD switch you will be alerted to it by the little LED light that is not blocked.

Good idea. But I'm going to try something easier. I'm going to put something on the switch so that when I touch it, I know it isn't one of the climate control switches. The 4wd switch does have little ribs on the side, but you don't notice them at all. Some kind of tape or grip material might do.

 

[DieselPower]

At least they moved it in the current model.

Having worked in the industry myself years back nothing would supprise me. I have seen some really stupid design's over the years. Anyone remember the exploding Ford Pinto's? You want a Ford engineering disaster that was it.

The Ford Pinto

 

[N80]

And just for the record, Roy, and others, just to let you know where I'm coming from, not to pose or brag, but I've been driving 4x4s all my life. In fact, I've never driven anything but 4wds. There have been 2 cars in my driveway that weren't 4x4s and they were my wife's. She now drives a 4x4. I've owned and driven an original IH Scout, the original Jeep Cherokee, and multiple Nissans. I've got a considerable amount of seat time in Willys (and Ford) Jeeps, AM General pickups, Toyota pickups,etc.

I've also spent a considerable amount of time driving them actually off road and in 4wd. (Most 4x4 trucks in this country never go offroad or into 4wd...intentionally). I've driven in the swamps and deep mud of Charleston plantations, in the deep sands of Eglin AFB's enourmous reserve, the oil slick red clay of the SC piedmont and on the 4wd trails under the powerlines on the banks of the Saluda river. I know....yada yada yada, whooptee doo. I'm just trying to say that I'm not some soccer dad in his first truck.

I have made mistakes in all of these vehicles from the minor to the major (stuck, all alone 6 miles deep on Millbrook plantation with a cheap Chinese come-along in pieces on the ground). I've knocked plenty of them out of 4wd. But never, not once, did I ever engage 4wd when I did not intend to in any of them but this one.

 

[riptides]

N80

With you on this ALL the way. Some of the preaching replies here are out of line.

I am fortunate enough to have driven Fords for many years now. Have a few in my stable. My gripe is entirely with you, but on another model.

The 2006 Explorer ergonomics plain old rot as compared to the entire line of years past. In fact they suck wind so bad, a group of us got together and wrote Ford about various issues.

No design considerations there AT all. On numerous basics, gauges, seats, arm rests, cup holders, seat head rests... and on...and on...

So, I know what you mean.

-Mike Z.

 

[cp1969]

In any case, I have an '03 F-150, SuperCrew, 4x4 with the Triton V-8. It is the first American made vehicle I've ever purchased. I come from a background of small, Japanese 4x4 trucks which I just love. But, I needed a full size 4 door 4x4 and this was before Toyoto or Nissan had released theres. So, I kind of expected the worse of an American made vehicle. I still don't love this truck, however, it has been almost flawless after 50K miles. No problems at all. And it has done the things I wanted it to do and done them well.

George, this paragraph speaks volumes of your (and many, many others) attitudes toward and expectations of American car companies.

Not picking on you, but think about it: You admit "love" for your previous Japanese vehicles, but even though the Ford has been "flawless" and "done all the things you wanted it to do and done them well", you still cannot "love" that vehicle.

Why is that? Are the Japanese vehicles somehow beyond flawless? Was every switch and placed perfectly, and nothing whatsoever needed a repair?

You also admit to "expecting the worst" when going in. With that, it is no surprise that you found something not to your liking, is it?

Don't get me wrong, there is room for improvement at Ford. But that is the very nature of engineering...incremental improvements. Otherwise, one would reach the conclusion that the 6.4 Powerstroke Super Duty should have been Henry Ford's second year model of trucks. Why not make all the improvements at once?

 

[L3650]

I have a '99 F-350 with the same switch configuration. Never thought about the location, and never had the problem. But I do see the point.

I have other "design" concerns about most things. As pointed out earlier, things are made for the 85 % of users. At 6'5" and more than 185 pounds, I always test everything and settle for what is the least uncomfortable. The pick-up is just about the best vehicle I have ever drove or road in. Because of the fact that everything I drive or ride in makes me look like a bear on a bicycle, I tend to look at the switches before I use them. Even the radio buttons. But I do get the original point.

Tractors have design features that make me wonder too. Last year I was looking at going to a smaller tractor, but there is no leg room. Why is there more leg room on my riding lawn mower than on my tractor? The Kubota and John Deere people actually told me that I should buy a New Holland. If you are targeting a North American market with certain models, should that be a consideration? I am fairly certain I don't have the same body type and size as a Japanese rice farmer. Because of that, Orange and Green will most likely not be the color of a new tractor.

I also get mad shopping for shoes. I have big feet. When I go and ask for a certain shoe in my size and the clerk replies that "we only had one or two pair in that size, and they sold right away", why not order more?

Oh well.

 

[Shimon]

N80 has an excellent point about the switch. Like he says, he's not knocking Ford but just knocking the placement and utility of the switch. I'm sure he would have complained if it was in a Toyota or BMW. I don't know why some people seem to take constructive criticisms about American made automobiles as a personal affront on their character.

This has nothing to do with brand loyalty but with poor design which affects all manufacturers. My wife had a 99 Subaru and the cup holders were poorly placed and poorly made. I wrote a comment about them on a Subaru satisfaction survey and sure enough they eventually changed the design...not because my comment alone but because enough people complained and Subaru saw the light.

If N80 and others will complain enough about a problem then it will get fixed. If we all shut and preach that our favorite brands are great than nothing will get fixed.

 

[RoyJackson]

Oh Roy, did YOU design that switch? I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings. But let's get real, every automaker has its 'doh' moments. This isn't about Ford. Its about a simple, unarguably bad design feature in one Ford model. No need to get that brand loyalty blood boiling. When an automaker has no critics, you get...well, if you were in the auto industry you know what you get. You get Ford (GM, AMC, Dodge, etc) in the 1970's setting the table for the Japs to eat their lunch. Good, thoughtful criticism and competition are good for any manufacturer. So relax, put your gun and your gigantic fonts away and relax....buddy.

I worked for automotive suppliers...

I won't dispute any manufacturer making mistakes (Edsel ring a bell? Or the Pintos bursting aflame in the 70's?).
But I do know how much is involved in the design work. Designers know the "one size fits all" concept doesn't always fit all. And, for most folks...is this really a bad design? Can't say I've heard too many complaints on here or any other website (or the folks I know who own Ford pickups). Of course, can't say I'm listening for the complaints either.

For me, it isn't a brand loyalty thing either. I buy vehicles used by cost...sometimes a Ford, sometime not. But cost is my primary criteria. I'm well past the age for being concerned about status.

The Japanese manufacturers are outstanding in their quality. However, there is a major difference in the business aspect of the Japanese. They don't demand a profit every quarter, thus management isn't under the pressure American management is. I prefer the Japanese business model (and their adherence to Quality), but I'm in the minority in this case (this is concerning the business models, not the Customer).

As far as the font sizes, I use them to emphasize a point...I'll be continuing that as needed.

But, thank you for your comments...