Foton 254 starting problem

[Diamondpilot]

On your starter solenoid there should be 3 nuts for electrical connections. One is the larger wire from the battery to the solenoid. The next is a metal bar that runs from the solenoid to the starter motor body. The final is the small nut that has the small wire running from the key switch.

To bypass the key switch all you should have to do is jump with a screwdriver from the large nut with the wire running from the battery to the small nut with the wire running from the key switch. It should then spin and start if all is ok.

If not you have a solenoid problem, not a starter issue. Remember, your starter has the solenoid on it. Its job is to make a electrical contact to spin the starter and to also engage the small gear on the starter to the flywheel so it can spin the engine over.

Chris

 

[succor]

Ok got you! I did that and all there is is the click... but no spin; even with a fresh battery! When I tested the starter on the bench it spun fast with no load but a bit noisy inside. Don't know what a good starter should sound like when it's spinning. Can the solenoid be taken apart completely to inspect? I can't seem to separate the solenoid even when I loosen the terminals on it. It feels like there is a spring holding it together. Sorry, not much of an expert with starters but I'm learning quick.

 

[succor]

I put the starter on the bench and it locked the solenoid and spun really fast but again with no load. Sounds like it's working but in the tractor it just clicks. Might just go ahead and get a new starter and try it.

Cory

 

[Rich Waugh]

First I'd suggest you take it to your local starter/alternator repair shop and have them check it out on their load bench. Cheaper than a new starter.

 

[RonMar]

Way cheaper

If on the bench, you are hooking +12 to the large terminal on the solenoid, and - to the case, and applying +12 to the small solenoid terminal, and the solenoid is engaging and spinning the starter, it is probably OK. A couple of things may be happening when installed though.

1. In order for the solenoid to close the large contacts(up at the front where + terminal attaches) and spin the motor, the solenoid must fully engage. The other end of the solenoid pulls a lever that forces the drive gear back to mesh with the flywheel ring gear. The teeth on the drive gear and the teeth on the ring gear are beveled to a point to help the drive gear fully mesh into the ring gear. If something is preventing this from happening, the solenoid will just click as it cannot fully engage to close the big contacts and spin the motor. Could something be preventing the gears from fully meshing? Didn't you mentioned ice in/on the ring gear earlier?

2. The solenoid is not receiving enough current to pull against the drag of the meshing gears and close the large contacts. Bad battery, connection or cable.

3. The commutator and brushes inside the motor are worn/damaged. They connect good enough to spin the motor with no load, but fail under the load of trying to crank the engine. A starter/electrical motor shop should be able to tell you this pretty quickly.

How were you testing it on the bench, battery and jumper cables? If it were me, I would take that same setup out to the tractor and "bench test" it in place...

 

[succor]

I took the starter to a reputable shop who has repaired Jinma starters and they basically tested it the way I do, except the only difference is they jam a block of wood into the gear to add some torque, It seemed to have reasonable torque as it chewed the wood up and they said it is PROBABLY fine? But they weren't 100 % sure. I'm dropping to about 10.5 volts to start which is good but still a click. There was ice on the ring gear but I used a hair dryer and screwdriver to remove all that I could see. I left the started semi tight when mounting it to see if I could move it slightly to engage it, nothing. You can see a bit of wear on the ring gear where I was spinning the starter but not engaging the solenoid because I was trying to do the hit and miss theory of getting the gears to line up?? The guys at the repair shop don't have the parts to fix this starter anyways. I guess I'll have to try a new starter, don't know what else to do??

Cory

 

[Gene :^)]

Are you sure the motor is not hydro-locked or stuck for some reason? Do you have a de-compression lever? Can you make sure the motor is not locked up (maybe a screw driver to the ring gear).

Gene :^)

 

[Affordable]

I would also check to make sure you can turn the engine over,if the starter shop tested the starter and is pretty confident it's ok,check the engine if it spins over with a screwdriver or bar if it does then buy a starter if not keep looking.

I have seen the flywheel housing loosen up,and the rear main seal bind against the crankshaft to where the motor would act like it was locked up

Tommy
Affordable Tractor Sales
"Your Jinma Parts Superstore"
Home of compact Jinma, Foton, and Koyker Tractors and Parts, Wood Chippers, Backhoes - Affordable Tractor Sales Company

 

[Diamondpilot]

I also wonder how the starter acts when cold? You have it in the shop its warm. Try a heat gun on the starter and get it hot then try to start it. The heavy grease in them can bind stuff up in the cold.

I would also try taking a pair of jumper cables from the battery or better yet a second battery directly to the starter. From you truck to the starter would be best with the truck running. Hook the red cable to the solenoid post where the batter normally hooks up and then the black to the base of the starter where the bolts go to the flywheel housing. This will bypass all the wires coming from the battery. Maybe you have a bad battery cable somewhere???? Will not cost you a dime, just some time.

Chris

 

[Rich Waugh]

I'd definitely recommend you determine first if the engine will roll over by levering the flywheel or turning the crank nut with a wrench. NOTE: have the fuel cut-off clamped open and the compression release also open so you don't experience an unexpected engine start! You mentioned ice on the ring gear so there may be ice in the bottom of the clutch housing that is keeping the motor from turning over, or the bearing issue Tommy mentioned. Whatever, you have to know the engine CAN turn over before you blame the starter for the problem. The bench test sounds like the starter is fine to me.

If you do decide to replace the starter, check out the newer model starter with reduction gearing. Supposed to be much better than the old model. But determine first that you truly NEED a starter. I'm not yet convinced that you do.