Found an old pond - needs water

[jk96]

I need some guidance.

Background:
I bought 90 acres a couple of years ago for both hunting and a future home site. Right now my primary use will be for deer hunting, at least for the next 8-10 years before were ready to move and build. I plan on working on the property this spring doing some cleanup, planting some late season food plots, etc. While walking the property this fall I found what used to be a small pond (maybe 50' x 100') that is silted in, overgrown, and no longer holding water. The only thing my property is missing for deer is a water source and figured getting this old water hole holding water would be a good addition and draw for the deer. The next closest water source is 3/4 mile.

Attached are some pictures that show how overgrown it is. Terraserver has an older topo map that shows water there. Any suggestions as to how to begin this process would be appreciated. I'm at a loss other than clearing the brush and trees. Also, the south berm is full of trees and roots and may be one source of the water leakage. I've got a case DX45 for brush removal, light digging, and silt removal, etc. I can also get an operator and small dozer in as needed. Thanks for any input.

 

[Tororider]

I am by no means an expert but with all the trees and therefore roots around there and basically no pond anyways, you may be better off finding a more suitable site to build a new pond. Just a thought, but are there any other places that might work?

 

[jk96]

Toro there are several areas that would make a nice site, I was just thinking that since it held water at one time I may be able to get a small watering hole holding again without the major expense of larger earthmoving equipment and operators. The pond is not for my enjoyment, only to draw deer so even a small amount of water would be fine. There is a ditch that looks like it is now channeling the water runoff around the pond that can easily be diverted. Also, with all of the large trees and roots growing in and around the main berm, would this be an area of concern for water loss?

 

[2manyrocks]

The tree roots may be loosening the ground to let the water escape.

I am told that in the old days, farmers would put pigs in an area they wanted to turn into a pond, and the pigs would pack it down so it would hold water.

 

[Tororider]

Also, with all of the large trees and roots growing in and around the main berm, would this be an area of concern for water loss?

Yes, any time there is a berm or embankment that is holding back water tree roots are a bad thing. They loosen the dirt, as has been said, and just give water another path to follow. If you were building a dam or berm, you wouldn't even want topsoil, let alone roots and organic material, you would want all clay.

I agree that if it held water at one time it may again, but then again you have to ask, if it held water before, why isn't it holding water now.

I am sure others will chime in, but I am just suggestion you look at all your options. Finding another site and digging a small pond or ditch to hold water may be a cheaper/shorter endeavor.

Whatever you decide the best path, good luck and make sure to keep taking pictures.

 

[EddieWalker]

Looks like a nice find. It really depends on how much time you want to put into it. If you want a pond, and who wouldn't? then this is probably the easiest one to create. Taking out the trees shoudl be your first step. Once you get them cleared, then it's just a matter of moving dirt.

It's either silted in, or their is a leak. Either way, it's pretty simple to fix both.

Start clearing the trees with your tractor and see how that goes. Try not to cut down any trees, but see if you can push them over with the roots still on them. It makes a huge difference when useing the weight and leverage of the tree to take out the roots.

You don't want any trees on your dam.

Look at it as a long term commitment. Don't expect to finish it in a year or two. Plan on this year to just clear and clean up the site. Watch what happens when it rains. See where the water goes and how it gets there.

Some ponds can gain allot of rain water with just a little dir up hill, or maybe taking out a little dirt to change the direction that the water flows after a rain. I've gained dozens and dozens of acres of runoff by doing this.

Next year, plan on moving dirt. Taking a full year to look over the site and figure out what you want to do will be time well spent. Digging is always easy, what's hard is getting rid of the dirt. Where you put it and how far it has to go is where you will spend all your time. I like putting dirt behind a dam, but that's not always an option. I built roads that also divert water with dirt from my ponds. Those roads have channeled allot of water to the ponds.

Eddie

 

[jk96]

Eddie the pond is definitely silted in. Its only 3 feet deep to the top of the dam right now. With several large trees, 6" to 10" growing either next to or on top of the dam I'm sure its sprung a leak. I talked to the previous property owner who said it was never maintained and held water until about 8 years ago. Also, I'll take your suggestion on watching the runoff. Right now it looks like the water is probably following a large ditch leading to a ravine off the backside of the dam. It's about 30 feet off the back of the dam and probably 20 feet wide and 12 foot deep. Should provide a good place to get rid of the extra dirt. I'll make sure and get pictures as the adventure begins.

 

[Ridgewalker]

What part of Missouri are you in? I have a friend who owns a D6 but he is in Southeast Mo near Freder*cktown.
He builds and repairs ponds and does dozer work.

 

[jinman]

The small dozer and operator seem to be the best option to me. I would suggest a crawler loader rather than a dozer blade if at all possible. The first operation is going to be clearing all that brush and trees. The dozer can get that done quickly, while you will work many hours with your tractor. Your DX45 is ideal for debris cleanup and dragging downed trees out of the way after the dozer brings them down. A grapple would also be ideal, with or without the dozer.

I just think you will spend a lot of time doing that job with your tractor. You may have trouble staying ahead of the job since you don't live on the property. In the spring, you could have mudholes and rapidly growing brush to deal with. Getting a small dozer in there now will get the major part of the job done and you can finish with your tractor. That's how I'd approach it.

 

[meadowlarkponds]

Jk96,

As you're aware, the first thing to do is get the site cleared of everything. Once that is done, you should have a much better feel for what caused the demise of the pond and whether a refurbishment is practical or not. Be sure that good quality clay is available at the site for your repair work.

If you have access to a small dozer, you can probably clear that area in a day or so and then have some answers to your questions.

Any areas on the dam where you removed trees should be carefully re-worked. Also if any animal damage is visible carefully re-work that also. The dirt from the basin which is silted in should not be used in the repair work but pushed out of the area. When you get to good clay you have your repair material.

All suspect leak areas should be covered and packed with 2 feet of good clay (USDA says one foot is enough, but I like that extra margin of safety).

Should be a fun project and add value and enjoyment to your land....oh, and did I mention you need good clay?

 

[jk96]

What part of Missouri are you in? I have a friend who owns a D6 but he is in Southeast Mo near Freder*cktown.
He builds and repairs ponds and does dozer work.

Thanks for the lead, unfortunately I'm in NW Missouri.

A grapple would also be ideal, with or without the dozer.

I've been thinking about that Markham grapple. Sounds like this may be just the excuse I was looking for.

Our neighbor on the north property line has a small dozer and skidsteer that sits on site. He's been doing work on his land the last year or so. I think I'll take your advise Jim and talk to him first. While I'm itching for the tractor time, the larger trees and reworking the dam would present problems with using only my tractor. I'll follow up on the post as things progress this spring.

 

[fishman]

jk96

If that's the best place on your property to have a pond, then proceed with repair. However, it may be just as cost effective to build a new pond in another location. By the time you clear the silt, remove the trees and associated roots, and redo the dam, you will move just as much dirt as if building a new dam. And with the old pond, you have no idea if it was built correctly with an impermeable clay keyway in the dam. You should also consider the install of a siphon outflow, where the intake in the pond is below the thermocline and the tube runs through the dam at the water level you want. This exchanges old water lacking oxygen for new water from runoff whenever it rains.

Most importantly, you have a great resource with the Missouri Department of Conservation. Contact your local biologist and they will provide you with assistance. That's what your 1/8 percent sales tax pays for.

I'm a fisheries biologist by trade, and I can tell you that there is no substitute for professional on-site advice. Everything else should be used with great caution.

 

[jk96]

Fishman,

Thanks for the reply. To answer a few question, no this is not the best place for a pond, however as I mentioned earlier I'm only looking to hold some water for a small watering hole for deer. Just one more piece of the puzzle to help attract them and hold them close to my hunting property. I really don't care if its brought back to its glory days. If it ended up half the size I'd be happy as long as it held water year round. I was just kind of hoping to create a watering hole on the cheap. Also - thanks for the suggestion for the MO Dept. of Conservation. I knew they did this as a service but it had just completely slipped my mind. I never even had thought about consulting them.

I did go back out today to take a more detailed look at the pond and did a couple of hours of cleanup. I found a couple of things.

1. The pond is not as large as I first thought.
2. A majority of the water runoff looks like it's now channeling into a ditch and around the south side of the pond and into the large ravine behind it. A few hours on the tractor can easily divert it.
3. The pond is completely silted in. There is actually no longer anywhere for the water to hold. It's silted to the point where any water that did flow into it would simply flow out the west end and out to the field edge.
4. It takes me exactly 20 minutes to drive my tractor to the property. About the same time it would take me to hook up the trailer, load the tractor, chain and bind. So its kind of a tossup on whether to load or drive.

Here's a few pics of todays cleanup.

About half of the surface area has been cleared. The pond goes back from where the brush starts left of the tractor about another 50'. I'll try to clear this remaining area next trip.


Its hard to tell here do to my camera angle when I took the picture but the cleared area is actually flat to downhill from left to right. You can see to the right of the picture where the pond surface actually meets the top of the dam. I don't think the pond could fill with more than 6" of water before it flowed out at this spot.


One more view

 

[EddieWalker]

I think your problem with the pond was probably the silt. If you cannot stop it from coming into the pond every time it rains, you will have the same problem again after you dig it out. Riprap, grass and a pit all help to catch and slow it down. Since you want it for a watering hole for wildlife and not a fishing hole, then dig it out as deep as you can and let it be. The deeper you go, the longer it will take to silt up again and the longer it will take to evaporate.

Eddie

 

[jk96]

Eddie thats my hope as well. It would be nice if a good clean out was all that was required. I may look at the idea of running drainage into the pond from another retention pit to slow down some of the silting. I plan to get back out this weekend and finish up the brush and tree clearing. This will give me a good idea of the area and work to be done. I'm hoping I can talk my neighbor into bringing his dozer over. He's using it on his property now and its sitting only 400 yards from my site. Hopefully this will help with the hourly rate. Money for fuel and beer would be even better.

 

[slowzuki]

Its a foreign concept to me, all the pond building stuff! Around here any time you dig a hole in the ground, you automatically have a pond very soon, unless you were lucky enough to find a gravel deposit!

 

[fishman]

Yes, if you just want a wildlife watering hole, it sounds like a really fun tractor project! In the past I've mentioned the dry pond on my place and I really enjoy playing in the dirt when it isn't holding water. Good source for dirt and gravel that I use for projects all over my place.

 

[ByronBob]

Don't know the first thing about a pond but I'm excited to see how you'll work on this. The fact you can start digging a pond and work on the outer side of it later would make this a fun project.

Is the dozer the best way to do this or would a backhoe be better?

 

[jk96]

A large excavator would probably be much better than the dozer, the silt could easily be dug and piled on the backside of the dam. Only problem is paying to have someone haul in and operate it. The pond is not in the budget right now, just something I happened upon while exploring the property. The dozer and friendly neighbor approach may be my best bet. I'm sure this will probably be a slow DIY project over the long haul though. Gonna head out this afternoon and do some more clearing.

 

[scott_vt]

Good Afternoon JK,
I have something similiar on my property to what you have. Mine probablly isnt as big. Im guessing that my little wet spot is 100' bt 30'. In the spring time while all the snow is melting and we are gettin lots of rain I have plenty of water back there. But by the time May rolls around its usually pretty dried up by then. Its a great place for wild life to drink, and I allways have a bumper crop of frogs back there also!

I would think if you knew someone with an excavator, they could make short work of digging it out and clearing trees at the same time ! As Eddie said, if its deeper it will take longer to dry up !