Framing nail gun questions

[52 Ford]

I was just browsing through and see that screws got mentioned a lot as an alternative. Last time I was looking for a framing gun, I was going to get a Fasco 3-1/2" 21 degree gun. Ended up getting a Hitachi/Metabo (excellent gun). The thing I liked about the Fasco is that it's a "scrail gun". It can shoot what is essentially a wood screw with a buttress thread.

 

[Williy]

I have used staples to put on shingles and I
worked in a factory prefab homes and they
put on shingles with staples and not one of
us had a problem with staples going threw
the shingles, roofing nail don't have the
holding power that the staples do. Staples
don't split wood like nails do on the end like
a 2x4 for example.
And saying staples go threw the shingles is
pure hog wash!

willy

 

[spitter]

Ive been a carpenter for 43 years and the biggest problem I've found with roofs is staples going through the shingles ... No legit roofer on the east coast uses them. As a matter of fact, they are mileage to use in most areas. I wish I had a dime for every staple I've seen come through.

That's one of the reasons pre fabbed houses are considered junk.Shotty construction endless problems with nail pops, cracks along the splice joints. When the homeowner tries to get warranty work on them the manufacture blames the installer, and the installer blames the manufacture. The homeowner lies dead in the mud.

People have called me in to help them fix 1- 2-year-old houses that look like holy hell. Most times I just walk away because the homeowner doesn't want to pay for anything because he just paid for a brand-new house, they don't want to hear they bought a . Some of the biggest hack jobs I've seen are in prefab houses and condos.

 

[jigs_n_fixtures]

Engineer hat on: The codes are proscriptive. Meaning tht if you follow them you pretty much can’t fail. Doing something else, because codes are not in effect where your area, invites failure particularly if you don’t have enough understanding of what the code is trying to accomplish with what it specifies.

I highly recommend that even if you live somewhere there isn’t a code in place, that anyone building a structure which they intend to stay standing buy a copy of the International Residentail Code with Commentary. The Commentary is the critical part, it explains why the code says what it does, and what the committee was trying to accomplish with the code. If you don’t have a very good understanding of what your trying to do, it is usually very hard to accomplish it.

Nails vs screws for framing: There are nails which have been tested and certified for framing, the International Code Council has a certification service, which does it, but any Engineerng Test lab can do it. Simpson Strong Tie, Spam, GRK and others all have them. And as someone else said: The thing you need is shear strength not pull out resistance. Uncertified screws may resist a lot of pull out, but shatter in shear very easily at less than half of what a nail would.

As to Framing Nailers: Look for one your, most likely, supply source stocks the nails for. And which has the ability to drive the nails for steel framing brackets. For an amature using a gun occaisionally, the cost of buying a separate gun just to drive the little nails for connectors, doesn’t make economic sense.

 

[EddieWalker]

I have used staples to put on shingles and I
worked in a factory prefab homes and they
put on shingles with staples and not one of
us had a problem with staples going threw
the shingles, roofing nail don't have the
holding power that the staples do. Staples
don't split wood like nails do on the end like
a 2x4 for example.
And saying staples go threw the shingles is
pure hog wash!

willy

I find this very hard to believe, but if it was done in a factory, and you where using 3 tab shingles that where all the same thickness, and your staple guns where adjusted perfectly for every shingle, then I can see where your statement is accurate.

In the real world of roofing contractors paying crews to install shingles on a house, the ones using staple guns are doing so because staples are cheaper then nails. Roofers will cut every corner possible to add another hundred dollars to their profit. They sell the job on the finished price, so if the home owner doesn't specify what they want, the Roofing Contractor adds to their profit by not doing some things, or using cheaper materials like staples.

Technically it's accurate that staples hold shingles better then nails if applied properly. Since the thickness of the shingle varies in Architectural shingles, and the air pressure varies because their is probably 4 guns being used off of one air compressor, and each gun is adjusted differently, along with being newer or older, you never know how far into a shingle a staple is going to go.

Not every shingle will have a staple going through it. But on an average house, there will be enough staples that have penetrated the shingle to create long term issues over the life of the roof. This is just reality.

It happens with nails too, but it's not as common and usually a nail that is installed with too much pressure still has some holding power. A staple installed too far into a shingle has zero holding power. There are roofing contractors that charge more, and stay busy, who refuse to use any air guns. Their marketing is based on hand nailing every shingle. This take longer, but it's still the gold standard on the best way to install shingles. I personally use a coil nail gun, but I don't roof houses. I fix roofing issues and I do small roofing jobs from time to time if I build the addition or outbuilding.

 

[spitter]

One of the best Nailers they came out with is a joist hanger Nailer. Did lots of jobs hundreds of hangers in tight awkward tight angles trying to get the nail started when its 0 degrees out and snowing. It makes the job easy. Before they came out with that all you had was a fart gun. aka [palm Nailer].

When your last joist leaves you tight space reach for the screws with long extension tips and the right-angle drill. Everything has its place, I guess.

As far as nailing roofs I've seen lots of guys hand nail just as fast as a meatball with a nail gun. A good hand Nailer really shines when you factor in nail jambs, frozen air lines, setup of compressor, the tart nailing the airline to the roof, or through his finger,  and every time you change a coil you light a cigarette.

 

[52 Ford]

Ive been a carpenter for 43 years and the biggest problem I've found with roofs is staples going through the shingles ... No legit roofer on the east coast uses them. As a matter of fact, they are mileage to use in most areas. I wish I had a dime for every staple I've seen come through.

That's one of the reasons pre fabbed houses are considered junk.Shotty construction endless problems with nail pops, cracks along the splice joints. When the homeowner tries to get warranty work on them the manufacture blames the installer, and the installer blames the manufacture. The homeowner lies dead in the mud.

People have called me in to help them fix 1- 2-year-old houses that look like holy hell. Most times I just walk away because the homeowner doesn't want to pay for anything because he just paid for a brand-new house, they don't want to hear they bought a . Some of the biggest hack jobs I've seen are in prefab houses and condos.

7/16 staples are AWESOME for putting sheathing on. They have more hold than nails. I've never worked on a house that had stapled shingles, though. I've never seen a prefab with a stapled roof, either. Like you said, though... east coast.

 

[Williy]

Our neighbor was building his house framing with nails
big mistake before he could put braces up a gust of wind
came and the whole works collapsed and the nails didn't
hold as it all came apart and he had to start over from
scratch. I see on youtube that this guy says screws break
and hits the screw with a hammer and nails don't they
just bend over however screws don't pull out like a nail
There is one nail that will not pull out very easy is the round
shank mason nail

willy