frozen pto linkage

[jinman]

hey Jim,

The diagram above is from NH website for TC40d. I'l double check to see if I looked at dual stage clutch and simple PTO sliding gear assembly for the pto.

Jc,

JC, the diagram you are using is how the mid-pto is engaged off the main pto shaft. If you look at the parts list on the right side of the drawing on the webpage, you will see the shifter forks items 21 and 22 are for the mid-pto. If you do not have the mid-pto option, you don't have these parts. The upper part of the transmission contains the PTO clutch and engagement as Boomhauer posted in his drawing. It does not matter whether you have a gear or HST transmission, the pto engagement is the same. It is completely independent of transmission operation and the transmission's clutch on the gear models. When you open the hydraulic valve with the lever, it allows .8 gpm of hydraulic flow to the pto clutch/brake assembly for operation. Engagement is only accomplished by opening a valve.

 

[BOOMHAUER]

jinman, god I wish you were right. That was the first thing I did. I removed the left control cowl/cover, disassembledthe three levers, took them off the shaft and cleaned/lubed everything. When I had the levers out, I crawled under the tractor and tried the shift rod, part #9. This rod can only be moved with visegrips. After taking my seat off the tractor, I was able to see where this rod goes.

JC, I hope its something easy to do/access. I would honestly be way over my head taking apart the rear end of this tractor. Opening an access panel, inspecting, and replacing a detent ball/spring would be a piece of cake. By the way, I see Kansas under your username. I was born in Topeka, and have relatives in Pratt. Nicest people I've ever met in those parts of the country. Thanks for your input!

 

[jinman]

jinman, god I wish you were right. That was the first thing I did. I removed the left control cowl/cover, disassembledthe three levers, took them off the shaft and cleaned/lubed everything. When I had the levers out, I crawled under the tractor and tried the shift rod, part #9. This rod can only be moved with visegrips. After taking my seat off the tractor, I was able to see where this rod goes.

JC, I hope its something easy to do/access. I would honestly be way over my head taking apart the rear end of this tractor. Opening an access panel, inspecting, and replacing a detent ball/spring would be a piece of cake. By the way, I see Kansas under your username. I was born in Topeka, and have relatives in Pratt. Nicest people I've ever met in those parts of the country. Thanks for your input!

So... You pulled the hairpin and shaft and tried to turn the valve by hand or with the hairpin put back into the hole on the shaft to use as leverage? If you pull the hairpin and your lever operates easily, then the valve is binding internally. It's just a simple hydraulic on-off valve. I have never heard of any of these having a problem, but it could be the first to have binding internally. You can be sure that nothing working or not working in your PTO would have any effect on your engagement lever. Your problem is between the lever and the valve, or the valve itself. You will have to go no further than what you have shown in your pictures. I would bet my next paycheck on it.

EDIT: You might try loosening the jam-nut around the shaft where it goes into the valve (in front of the hairpin). If this loosens it up, then a little lube in that area just might be the ticket.

 

[JC-jetro]

jinman,

JC, I hope its something easy to do/access. I would honestly be way over my head taking apart the rear end of this tractor. Opening an access panel, inspecting, and replacing a detent ball/spring would be a piece of cake. By the way, I see Kansas under your username. I was born in Topeka, and have relatives in Pratt. Nicest people I've ever met in those parts of the country. Thanks for your input!

Boomhauer,

Take a look at the my shifter below. There are 4 horizontal rod right underneath, I got for bolts there as the pic shows. you loosen the bolt, cover does not come off but right under the bolt there is a spring and a steel ball. need magnet to take the ball out. My range got stuck once and I could not shift it to save my soul, I loosened the bolt and a bit of jiggling back and forth and I was in business. I then went ahead and took all the balls (4) and spring out. and replaced one of them that looked less than round. I'm not suggesting yours should look exactly like that but idea should be the same. I can't see disassembling part of transmission differential just to check detent mechanism.

Good luck,

Jc,

By the way, we live in south suburb of Kansas city, my #1 son goes to college in Manhattan and I pass Topeka and Lawrence every couple of weeks. Been in Kansas for a long time and certainly nice place to raise a family.

 

[jk96]

Had the same problem with my DX33 after not using the PTO all winter. I could only engage with vice grips as well. A few shots of JB weld and working it in and out with the vice grips solved the problem.

 

[BOOMHAUER]

jinman, take a look @ the first pic below. The shift lever when detched from the pto shift rod works great. The red arrow points to where I had placed the visegrips. This is the rod that has considerable resistance, so much so that when the control lever is attached, I bent the control lever trying to move it. The next pic shows where this rod connects to the pto valve. This is under the seat. Two arrows, one green, one red. Are talking about where the green arrow is? Lube where the rod enters the valve?

 

[BOOMHAUER]

one more pic, this a schematic of the valve itself.

 

[JC-jetro]

JC, the diagram you are using is how the mid-pto is engaged off the main pto shaft. If you look at the parts list on the right side of the drawing on the webpage, you will see the shifter forks items 21 and 22 are for the mid-pto. If you do not have the mid-pto option, you don't have these parts. The upper part of the transmission contains the PTO clutch and engagement as Boomhauer posted in his drawing. It does not matter whether you have a gear or HST transmission, the pto engagement is the same. It is completely independent of transmission operation and the transmission's clutch on the gear models. When you open the hydraulic valve with the lever, it allows .8 gpm of hydraulic flow to the pto clutch/brake assembly for operation. Engagement is only accomplished by opening a valve.

Jim,

I get your point. Items 21 and 22 are for the mid pto but item 26 fork, 25 rod works with Sliding gear A that is for TC35D and Tc40D which are parts of Lower, Rear Transmission PTO drive. Shaft 13 is clearly final pto shaft that can be covered externally with item 19 cap. This is totally independent of transmission. What am I missing there?

JC,

 

[jk96]

A few shots of JB weld and working it in and out with the vice grips solved the problem.

Sorry - JB80

 

[jinman]

jinman, take a look @ the first pic below. The shift lever when detched from the pto shift rod works great. The red arrow points to where I had placed the visegrips. This is the rod that has considerable resistance, so much so that when the control lever is attached, I bent the control lever trying to move it. The next pic shows where this rod connects to the pto valve. This is under the seat. Two arrows, one green, one red. Are talking about where the green arrow is? Lube where the rod enters the valve?

Well, I'm a little embarrassed because I was looking at that hairpin on the top shaft and didn't realize it was the 3PH lowering valve and shaft that comes out under the seat. It's been awhile since I looked directly at the PTO valve. But yes, the shaft going into the valve at the red arrow is the one that I should be talking about. That small valve on the bottom is the PTO valve. It sits directly on top of the transmission case. You could lube where that shaft goes into the valve, and you could lube on the other side of the valve where the C-lock ring is located. If you can't get it to loosen up, you might have to take the C-lock ring off and disassemble the valve. Since you have the illustration of the valve, you have most of what you need. I would probably clean that area well before any attempt to do disassembly.

Most of the time the binding is in the pivot, but you said that is very loose now. It sounds to me like you are doing all the right things. Of course, you also have to be concerned that the valve's orings and seals are not damaged or you might end up with a seeping leak. You said you could turn the shaft with the vice grips, so hopefully a little lube and working will get it loosened up.