Frustrating but simple problem

Jframe · Aug 5, 2022

I have had a US Yanmar 165D for many years. It's first owner, a municipal government, always left it outdoors in this rainforest next to the Pacific Ocean, but it wasn't a rust bucket when I bought it. I have never left it outside (15 years now), and now that it is 40 years old it doesn't look bad for it's age and 700 hours. It was delivered new with the YBH 656 backhoe and the YFL front-end loader.

It's in need of new hydraulic hoses. It may actually have the originals. Getting ready to change all of them I began with removing the boom hoses on the backhoe. Even though there is no visible corrosion I cannot remove the NPT fitting. A wrench was clearly going to just round off the corners on the 9/16 inch hose fitting. A box-end line wrench wouldn't fit due to clearance with the cylinder. I cut off the hose so I could use a socket. The socket on a breaker-bar easily rounded off the fitting. I drilled a 1/4 inch hole through the fitting so I can have some leverage. So far I have nothing that will fit through the hole and not break off instead of the fitting coming loose. I have applied 3 different chemicals sold for helping, including PB Blaster. This looks like a simple problem, and it is, but I cannot loosen that fitting. I have every reason to expect that every one of the hoses will be like this. Does anyone have any ideas? Thanks.

ponytug · Aug 5, 2022

Your tractor sounds like a well cared for gem. I don't know your exact fitting. Is it a female hose fitting on a male cylinder fitting? If so, a hydraulic bolt cutter/nut cracker may be the tool of choice.

Heat? Heat, PBlaster, and time? I know some folks who swear by candle wax on a hot fitting.

At some point, it may be easier to take the cylinder off, take it to a machine shop to drill out the offending adapter fitting and thread in a new fitting.

Often, I get to the page where I make peace with the fact that the problem fitting or bolt is toast and then I feel better about going to town on it, at which point it usually rolls over and gives up. A larger pipe wrench with an extender bar? ...my enforcer wrench is 4' long.

All the best,

Peter

workinonit · Aug 5, 2022

Do you have enough room to get a pipe wrench on it?

5030 · Aug 5, 2022

Heat it up with a propane torch and use a Stillson pipe wrench to remove it. One thing about a pipe wrench is, the tighter the fitting is, the harder it bites. Been known to add a cheater pipe to a pipe wrench handle in the past too.

5030 · Aug 5, 2022

ponytug said:
my enforcer wrench is 4' long.

So is mine actually, Oil field Ridge Tool Stillson in drop forged steel and it's a heavy bugger. It's never met a frozen fitting it cannot loosed and bugger up.

Fixastuff · Aug 5, 2022

Heat it then put a wet cloth on it. It's a trick I learned for rusty brake lines. The hot then cold shock really does wonders.

Jframe · Aug 5, 2022

Thanks for the replies. I used heat with an electric heat gun but should try a torch. The Yanmar book for the BH just calls for 10-40 motor oil for the hydraulics, and I am sure there is some residual in the cylinder so I need to be careful with flame. I have pipe wrenches, including a Rigid pipe wrench that is at least 3 feet long, but there really isn't enough clearance to bite a 9/16 inch nut with it. I will try more heat and a smaller pipe wrench however. I use cheater pipes on most everything now that I am a senior citizen and have nothing to prove to the neighbor ladies or anyone else.

5030 · Aug 5, 2022

I'm old as well and a cheater pipe for me is standard equipment. IMO, PBlaster is worthless, use acetone and ATF in a spritz bottle. Much better.

runningbird · Aug 5, 2022

I also use the Acetone and ATF. works great.

5030 · Aug 5, 2022

Red Dexron only, no synthetic and Acetone. 1-5 ratio 5 parts acetone to 1 part ATF.

rontaki · Aug 5, 2022

Peace said:
What ratio? How long does it take to have any effect? Soak overnight or only a few minutes? I have both in my paint/oil cabinet and want to give it a try. Might give me cause to get rid of all the inoperable (no propellant) WD-40 cans.

As for the WD-40 cans, consider repressurizing them by forcing air into them with an air compressor. Be careful and wear eye protection.

ponytug · Aug 5, 2022

Jframe said:
Thanks for the replies. I used heat with an electric heat gun but should try a torch. The Yanmar book for the BH just calls for 10-40 motor oil for the hydraulics, and I am sure there is some residual in the cylinder so I need to be careful with flame. I have pipe wrenches, including a Rigid pipe wrench that is at least 3 feet long, but there really isn't enough clearance to bite a 9/16 inch nut with it. I will try more heat and a smaller pipe wrench however. I use cheater pipes on most everything now that I am a senior citizen and have nothing to prove to the neighbor ladies or anyone else.

You definitely want a torch, not an electric heat gun. I use MAPP, and it is a definite improvement on propane. Don't be afraid to get the fitting hot. @Fixastuff's suggestion of hot followed by a cold cloth is one that I have used as well. No harm in trying, as this isn't a glass fitting. You can also try hitting the fitting end on with a hammer to vibrate it loose; that works really well if you have tension on the fitting and then tap the fitting in with a hammer. The impact really does wonders.

I've used acetone ATF mixes as well. It works. Whether it works better than "fill in the blank", I am less sure of. I am sure that in some case it does, due to the detergents in the ATF. I recently had a sticky carb (my bad, as I left fuel in it), and adding a touch of two stroke oil made the difference. I tend to use PBlaster because it is in a can, and helps.

Good luck!

All the best,

Peter

2manyrocks · Aug 5, 2022

I have loosened stuck brake lines with repeated applications of ATF/solvent, heat, shocking with cold, and.... also found that these kinds of vice grips will hold a nut without rounding it off as badly as other options.

https://www.amazon.com/Tools-VISE-GRIP-Original-Locking-Wrench/dp/B00004SBBE/ref=sr_1_2?adgrpid=1338106215110775&hvadid=83631877496115&hvbmt=be&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=64943&hvnetw=o&hvqmt=e&hvtargid=kwd-83631982061012%3Aloc-190&hydadcr=1609_13458103&keywords=vice+grip+4lw&qid=1659737751&sr=8-2

They come in several sizes.

bmaverick · Aug 5, 2022

Peace said:
Never heard of this combo before. Sounds interesting. (Acetone and ATF)

Yes it does work. So does DEEP CREEP. Both work insanely well. Acetone is very pricey lately.

ponytug · Aug 5, 2022

bmaverick said:
Yes it does work. So does DEEP CREEP. Both work insanely well. Acetone is very pricey lately.

Despite being one of the cheapest chemicals at industrial scale...

duffer · Aug 5, 2022

rontaki said:
As for the WD-40 cans, consider repressurizing them by forcing air into them with an air compressor. Be careful and wear eye protection.

Go to a tire store and ask them for a couple of valve stems. cut the bottom off to make them flat. It fits right over the tube (without the button) on the WD-40 can. Attached your air hose to the valve stem, then press down and you should re-pressurize your can easily.

Jframe · Aug 5, 2022

ponytug said:
Your tractor sounds like a well cared for gem. I don't know your exact fitting. Is it a female hose fitting on a male cylinder fitting? If so, a hydraulic bolt cutter/nut cracker may be the tool of choice.

Heat? Heat, PBlaster, and time? I know some folks who swear by candle wax on a hot fitting.

At some point, it may be easier to take the cylinder off, take it to a machine shop to drill out the offending adapter fitting and thread in a new fitting.

Often, I get to the page where I make peace with the fact that the problem fitting or bolt is toast and then I feel better about going to town on it, at which point it usually rolls over and gives up. A larger pipe wrench with an extender bar? ...my enforcer wrench is 4' long.

All the best,

Peter

It's a 1/4 NPT male fitting that screws into the fitment on the hydraulic cylinder. That male fitting takes a 9/16 wrench or socket. Both of these Yanmar implements, the backhoe and the front-end loader are SAE. The tractor itself is metric. The manuals that are for the implements are written by people who normally speak English whereas the manuals that are for the tractor, while in English, were written by someone who does not use English every day. My Bobcat skid steer is SAE, but the engine is a Kubota and is metric.

Jframe · Aug 5, 2022

rontaki said:
As for the WD-40 cans, consider repressurizing them by forcing air into them with an air compressor. Be careful and wear eye protection.

I've begun doing this with cans of WD-40 and other chemicals. I use a valve from a tire. When I buy wheel weights for casting bullets the can of wheel weights usually has at least one tire valve. Five seconds at 50 pounds pressure usually does the trick. I wear gloves and a face shield. It just feels better to get the last drop of value. The White House says this inflation is just transitional and that it's not all that bad, but I can imagine a large can of WD-40 costing $15 soon.

ponytug · Aug 5, 2022

Jframe said:
It's a 1/4 NPT male fitting that screws into the fitment on the hydraulic cylinder. That male fitting takes a 9/16 wrench or socket. Both of these Yanmar implements, the backhoe and the front-end loader are SAE. The tractor itself is metric. The manuals that are for the implements are written by people who normally speak English whereas the manuals that are for the tractor, while in English, were written by someone who does not use English every day. My Bobcat skid steer is SAE, but the engine is a Kubota and is metric.

You are in good company. I recently adapted some new to me implements to my tractor. The originals were a combination of metric, bspp, and a weird high pressure JIC like taper o-ring, but with a steeper angle that I needed to get back to NPT. I spent hours measuring threads, diameters, and tapers in utter confusion before finding a complete hydraulic fitting booklet at discount hydraulic hose.

I learned a lot. I only bought one fitting that turned out to be wrong.

All the best,

Peter