Fuel Filter Changeout Issue

[mmranch]

Bit of a crisis at the moment.

Plowed our road for about 6 hrs today and tractor worked fine. As I was driving back up the hill to the shop with the engine at top revs (as it had been all day), the engine started to lose power momentarily but then recovered. I switched to a lower gear and continued up the hill. I almost made it back up to the shop but then the engine lost power again and died. I was on a steep hill and blocking my driveway so I coasted back down the hill to a flatish spot off to the side.

Last time this happened, I replaced the fuel filter, bled the filter and she started fine and has been running fine for approximately 1.5 years. So I got my tools and replaced the filter down on the road. All went fine but I can't get fuel to bleed out the bleed screw. Last time, I think I simply turned the key ON and the pump ran and fuel came out (not sure if I'm remembering this right). This time no fuel with the key ON and no fuel even with the key turned to START.

During the changeout... I had both the inlet and outlet hose pinched with vise grips (just like last time) but I worry maybe I got air further in the line. Anyway, with the outlet line pinched, no fuel comes out the bleed screw. I run anti-gel all the time and have never had any freezeups.

It's getting dark and cold and I am charging the battery now and will try one more time to get fuel to show up.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

 

[Jerry/MT]

Bit of a crisis at the moment.

Plowed our road for about 6 hrs today and tractor worked fine. As I was driving back up the hill to the shop with the engine at top revs (as it had been all day), the engine started to lose power momentarily but then recovered. I switched to a lower gear and continued up the hill. I almost made it back up to the shop but then the engine lost power again and died. I was on a steep hill and blocking my driveway so I coasted back down the hill to a flatish spot off to the side.

Last time this happened, I replaced the fuel filter, bled the filter and she started fine and has been running fine for approximately 1.5 years. So I got my tools and replaced the filter down on the road. All went fine but I can't get fuel to bleed out the bleed screw. Last time, I think I simply turned the key ON and the pump ran and fuel came out (not sure if I'm remembering this right). This time no fuel with the key ON and no fuel even with the key turned to START.

During the changeout... I had both the inlet and outlet hose pinched with vise grips (just like last time) but I worry maybe I got air further in the line. Anyway, with the outlet line pinched, no fuel comes out the bleed screw. I run anti-gel all the time and have never had any freezeups.

It's getting dark and cold and I am charging the battery now and will try one more time to get fuel to show up.

Any ideas?

Thanks!

It sounds like you have a blockage between the tank outlet and the filter bled screw. What happens if you take the pliers off the filter outlet line?

If your tractor has a screen in the tank outlet, it may be clogged with ice or other crud. Do you have winter fuel in it or do you have summer fuel. Is the fuel vent in the fuel cap clear? You may also have some crud in the line from the tank to the filter, in a fitting or the filter head passages. If you can get some compressed air to it, you might blow back from the fuel line connection to the filter back to the tank.

 

[mike0000]

Any chance your lift pump died?

Mike

 

[mmranch]

Thanks for the ideas! I'll be looking into it all.

When I changed the fuel filter last time... I'm almost positive that I turned the key to ON (not START) and when I did (along with the glow plugs heating) there was a humming sound (some type of sound) of the fuel pump pumping. With the outlet hose pinched, fuel came out of the bleed screw and I tightened it down. The fuel pump lives right next to the fuel filter.

This time, if I turn the key to ON and get out of the cab and go listen near the fuel pump... I don't hear any sound (and no fuel comes out the bleed screw). When I touch the fuel pump... I feel NO vibrations. I checked the 10amp fuse for the fuel pump and it is good (tested it with the multimeter and continuity is good). I suppose the fuel pump itself could have died.

The fuel pump is a 2" diameter cylinder with inlet and outlet on either end and some wires coming off the cylinder (looks basically like an automotive inline fuel filter... only it has wires). It does have a small welded-on bracket which enables it to be bolted to the mounting frame (NAPA may have something like it but it sure won't have the mounting bracket).

If I unpinch the fuel filter outlet hose and turn the key to ON, there is no difference. (I'm pretty sure last time I kept the outlet hose pinched to keep air from going further towards the engine). Tractor has winter fuel with Power Service White and Silver added.

Later when the sun is up, I will have to disconnect the hoses and check the fuel pump again.

Thanks again.

 

[RjCorazza]

Napa should have that lift pump at a reasonable price. I believe they are almost universally 3-7psi diaphragm pumps. I have used "Mr Gasket" brand pumps with good results, or $25 ebay pumps.
While you're doing your final check this morning you may want to confirm the wiring didn't get disconnected... had that happen on one of my ZD mowers a few years ago.

 

[coldsteelva]

Fuel shutoff petcock?

 

[sea2summit]

Thanks for the ideas! I'll be looking into it all.

When I changed the fuel filter last time... I'm almost positive that I turned the key to ON (not START) and when I did (along with the glow plugs heating) there was a humming sound (some type of sound) of the fuel pump pumping. With the outlet hose pinched, fuel came out of the bleed screw and I tightened it down. The fuel pump lives right next to the fuel filter.

This time, if I turn the key to ON and get out of the cab and go listen near the fuel pump... I don't hear any sound (and no fuel comes out the bleed screw). When I touch the fuel pump... I feel NO vibrations. I checked the 10amp fuse for the fuel pump and it is good (tested it with the multimeter and continuity is good). I suppose the fuel pump itself could have died.

The fuel pump is a 2" diameter cylinder with inlet and outlet on either end and some wires coming off the cylinder (looks basically like an automotive inline fuel filter... only it has wires). It does have a small welded-on bracket which enables it to be bolted to the mounting frame (NAPA may have something like it but it sure won't have the mounting bracket).

If I unpinch the fuel filter outlet hose and turn the key to ON, there is no difference. (I'm pretty sure last time I kept the outlet hose pinched to keep air from going further towards the engine). Tractor has winter fuel with Power Service White and Silver added.

Later when the sun is up, I will have to disconnect the hoses and check the fuel pump again.

Thanks again.

Does it have/did you check the fuel pump relay? I'd check it before installing a new pump.

 

[Fxfymn413]

Start with the fuse; then check for voltage at the pump with a test light next; no voltage? check the fuel pump relay for voltage if it has one; look for loose, chafed, corroded, or disconnected wires; if you have voltage at the pump and it is not running it is defective and needs replacing.

You also need to ensure there is full fuel flow to the pump from the tank. Pump failure can be caused by running dry.

 

[big bubba]

is your fuel treated? could be a gelling issue

 

[dodge man]

I agree, disconnect the line going to the pump and make sure fuel is flowing by gravity from the tank. Also make sure the pump is getting electricity. I had a Kubota BX and it sounds just like the electric lift pump it had.

 

[EddieWalker]

What happens if you disconnect the hose coming out of the fuel pump? Does fuel shoot out under pressure?

Is there another screen inside the threads of the fuel line going into the fuel pump? Small, thimble type of screen?

Can you get an air compressor to it and blow air through the fuel line going from the pump to the tank?

If fuel is coming out of the pump, is it coming out of the filter? Did you fill up the filter with fuel before installing it, or is it still filling up? Some fuel filters take forever to fill up. Take off the line coming out of the filter and keep pumping until it's coming out of the filter.

Is there just one fuel filter? Some tractors have water separators.

Some tractors have internal filters inside the fuel pumps, but I think that's only on mechanical fuel pumps.

If fuel is coming out of the line after the fuel filter, then loosen one of your injector lines and see if fuel is coming out of that line. If you got air in your system, you will have to blead your lines.

Are you 100% that you have fuel in your fuel tank? Could the gauge be wrong?

 

[mmranch]

Thanks to all for the ideas!!

I got it sorted. Fuel pump was without power.

The official fuse box showed a 10amp fuse for 'Fuel Pump' which was good. The entire front zone had significant dirt/dust in the various electrical connectors. I disconnected/reconnected multiple connections (don't think these connections were the cause).

Nearby to the fuel filter and fuel pump is a large electrical harness with the wires inside a plastic sheathing. Sticking out of the harness was a wire that had been pulled outside the sheathing and a fuse had been added inline with a plastic cap over the fuse (no label marked what this was). Lots of dirt inside the plastic cap and fuse. When I pulled the 10amp fuse out... it was blown. Replaced the fuse and then when the key was turned to ON... you could hear the fuel pump ticking and pumping.

Turned over several times as the fuel got to the engine and then fired right up. She's back in the shop now.

Thanks again!

 

[Fxfymn413]

Good for you!

 

[dodge man]

Good deal, I knew you had it all along.

 

[EddieWalker]

Good job figuring it out. It can be very frustrating when they wont start!!!

 

[mmranch]

The black sheathed harness with multiple black sub-harnesses coming out and a black lump out the side... it wasn't until the black fuse cap broke off the lump did I realize there was a fuse there.

I've bound the fuse cap back in place with electrical tape and now need to label it with a white marker so I don't miss it next time!

Thanks again.