bruce1966us
Platinum Member
Why don't you remove the last shim and advance the timing further? Seems like it helped with the first.
Oil & Fuel Fuel Pump Timing Help??
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arthr31
Platinum Member
Hi Mark,
I've been following along here, real bear of a problem.
On a yanmar, i'm not sure. However, I've been doing a bit of research on this for my cummins. If the pump timing is too far advanced (from what was originally intended), the engine will not run right at idle. However at WOT (wide open throttle) full rpm, it might run fine. Lower rpms, stumble.
Most folks I've spoke to about pump timing won't do it without the proper tools. However, with that said, if you don't have the tools, maybe a two stage test (idle rpm and WOT) will tell you if it is running acceptably? I don't know, just kinda thinking a loud... Good luck, let us know what happens... !
btw, is this on a 1600 series tractor?
I've been following along here, real bear of a problem.
On a yanmar, i'm not sure. However, I've been doing a bit of research on this for my cummins. If the pump timing is too far advanced (from what was originally intended), the engine will not run right at idle. However at WOT (wide open throttle) full rpm, it might run fine. Lower rpms, stumble.
Most folks I've spoke to about pump timing won't do it without the proper tools. However, with that said, if you don't have the tools, maybe a two stage test (idle rpm and WOT) will tell you if it is running acceptably? I don't know, just kinda thinking a loud... Good luck, let us know what happens... !
btw, is this on a 1600 series tractor?
OP
mark777
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Bruce,
I don't have any shim stock 4"X4" that's thin enough...I do have some on order and will be dropping the thickness from .011 to .008" depending of the thickness of the assortment.
arthr31,
The book (injection pump section) dictates idle to fully open throttle ranges to test injector pump timing. 1mm (or .004") changes crankshaft timing by 1°. So far the changes resulted in no idle, some mid range and no WOT. OR, some idle and WOT but no mid range. It's been trial and error process, but I think I'm on the right course.
It's a 3 cylinder (YM1610D)
Mark
I don't have any shim stock 4"X4" that's thin enough...I do have some on order and will be dropping the thickness from .011 to .008" depending of the thickness of the assortment.
arthr31,
The book (injection pump section) dictates idle to fully open throttle ranges to test injector pump timing. 1mm (or .004") changes crankshaft timing by 1°. So far the changes resulted in no idle, some mid range and no WOT. OR, some idle and WOT but no mid range. It's been trial and error process, but I think I'm on the right course.
It's a 3 cylinder (YM1610D)
Mark
bruce1966us
Platinum Member
Just use no shims and see how it runs. It won't hurt anything in the short time it runs in the shop. Then you will(might) know if you're on the right track. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
OP
mark777
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Even though the shims are at the base of the pump...there has to be some deflection by spacing between the pump rollers and the cam lobes. We're talking thin material here....the thickness of a beer can is .005.
Plus I'm too chicken to put both machined surfaces together without shims..when the manual insists using the correct number and thickness will make the engine timing correct.
Plus I'm too chicken to put both machined surfaces together without shims..when the manual insists using the correct number and thickness will make the engine timing correct.
bruce1966us
Platinum Member
I've done it dozens of times with no problems , but I understand your concern.
YanmarFever
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Mark, if you need shims give me a shout, I think I have some in stock
Ernie
Ernie
normde2001
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Mark, a couple of things come to mind. Have you assured yourself that the pump and injectors are working properly? Maybe if you beg really hard you can find someone with a parts 1610 tractor that can tell you what it is shimmed at, or possibly even loan you a known good pump to try. T'would be a shame to try and correctly shim up a bad pump.
greatrandini
Gold Member
I am guessing u will want about .016 to .018 to achieve correct timing. What gauge are the shims u ordered?
OP
mark777
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Norm, LOL...I'm not quite sure of anything. I see that the machined surface where the pump mounts on the timing cover can vary a few thousandths (from cover to cover)...I also see that the pump itself is very close tolerances internally, but the machined flats at the base of the pump also vary a few thousandths (from pump to pump).
I have the same pump and engine in another tractor (1601) that operates normally...tractor runs fine, good power and no smoke. I gave serious consideration to removing it and putting it in the 1610 but...same problem exists, I'll have to remove or add shims for it to be timed with the crankshaft, pump rollers and cam lobes to this particular application. As a last resort, and if I cant properly time the 1610 with the new shims, I WILL swap pumps and start from scratch with the 1601 injector pump.
I have removed and re-attached all the injectors with this existing pump. All spray evenly according to the book. I have attached a bungee cord to the decompression handle, locked the clutch pedal down, and spun up the engine and watched all three injectors spray into a large coffee can. The pattern is even and alternating correctly...but the timing is too far advanced (or retarded).
Great, Not sure on the set coming...have been at .022", .016" and .011"...shooting for .009" and hoping to be in the ball park.
I have the same pump and engine in another tractor (1601) that operates normally...tractor runs fine, good power and no smoke. I gave serious consideration to removing it and putting it in the 1610 but...same problem exists, I'll have to remove or add shims for it to be timed with the crankshaft, pump rollers and cam lobes to this particular application. As a last resort, and if I cant properly time the 1610 with the new shims, I WILL swap pumps and start from scratch with the 1601 injector pump.
I have removed and re-attached all the injectors with this existing pump. All spray evenly according to the book. I have attached a bungee cord to the decompression handle, locked the clutch pedal down, and spun up the engine and watched all three injectors spray into a large coffee can. The pattern is even and alternating correctly...but the timing is too far advanced (or retarded).
Great, Not sure on the set coming...have been at .022", .016" and .011"...shooting for .009" and hoping to be in the ball park.