Gas Company wants to install pipeline under my land; Please help!

[greasemonkeyok]

Per a crew chief, Natural Gas pipeline easements are costing the pipeline companies in East Texas upwards of $400 per rod. A rod is 16.5 feet. That ain't chicken feed.

Once installed, pipelines are like herpes - you may not notice them all the time but they never go away.

 

[RoyJackson]

Once installed, pipelines are like herpes - you may not notice them all the time but they never go away.

Yeah...and every now and then, they blow up...

 

[dodge man]

There is no doubt any easement "burdens" the property. Its really just a matter to what degree.

I'll just say I have worked on a lot of civil engineering projects over the 28 years I've been doing this. Non co-operative land owners are a fact of life. Most of the jobs I work on are for government. They aren't out to make a profit, just provide things for the public. Of course there is often people that object to a project, not matter how positive it is.

As a land owner, I can understand how frustrating it is to realize you don't really own your land free and clear, and that someone can come in and do things to it that you can't control. I'm sure the gas company isn't doing this for the heck of it and it is a necessary project. If not for these projects, we wouldn't have any water, sewer, electricity, natural gas, or any kind of utilities. I'm not saying you should just roll over and take less money than you can get, but look at the big picture for what the project really means.

 

[RoyJackson]

I'm sure the gas company isn't doing this for the heck of it and it is a necessary project. If not for these projects, we wouldn't have any water, sewer, electricity, natural gas, or any kind of utilities. I'm not saying you should just roll over and take less money than you can get, but look at the big picture for what the project really means.

The bolded phrase is the salient point...is this necessary? Or, is it just so the company can increase sales/profits.
To me, that is not for the public good, hence does not fall under the criteria of eminent domain.

 

[johnk]

I went through this in a similar situation. You really can't win when they prove right of eminent domain. I lucked out though because they took a different route. Big business usually wins...

 

[two_bit_score]

Per a crew chief, Natural Gas pipeline easements are costing the pipeline companies in East Texas upwards of $400 per rod. A rod is 16.5 feet. That ain't chicken feed.

Once installed, pipelines are like herpes - you may not notice them all the time but they never go away.

That's not that much either. The width is the main thing with pipelines and limiting it to one pipe.

They are going you get it and you can be smart and get the bet deal cooperating or you can be a smartazzz and get a real screwing.

 

[Dr_Zinj]

I'd suggest not doing a single sale of the rights; but for a percentage of their gross income. Income, not profits. And it should be for a minimum of the value you'd expect for use of that land, plus the easements on each side of it, for other purposes for the rest of your lives.

 

[dsaxman]

Does anyone know a really expensive Attorney in Texas that is qualified with pipeline ROW?

Sending you a PM with some info..

 

[ITHINKICAN]

Here is the initial proposal. Let it be known: 1.) My land is not for sale. 2.) The initial offer is low ball and unreasonable. If we don't get a reasonable offer exercise our rights: 1.) We will hire Appraisers. 2.) We will hire Attorneys. 3.) We will require a hearing before a court appointed panel. 4.) We will go to trial. 5.) We will appeal their decision if we are not satisfied.

TBN: Can you help me find these items in their agreement. I want to address them and make sure I haven't missed them somewhere in the fine print.

TBN: I'm interested in these items. 1.) We want to restrict all surface rights. 2.) We want to limit what they transport. 3.) We want allow only one single line. 4.) We want to enjoy our land as much as possible. 5.) We want to limit the hours of which they can enter our property. 6.) We want a defined timeline of when they will do the project. 7.) We want to restrict their activity to the easement only. 8.) We want to save some trees near their intended easement. 9.) We want to be held harmless against any damage to environment and environmental issues. 10.) We want to reserve the right to build ANY type of road or driveway across their easement. 11.) We want to be able to build a pond in close proximity. 12.) We want to restrict their ability to grant other easements within our easement area. 13.) We want compensation for any future disruption. 14.) We want abandonment defined. 15.) We want to restrict warning signs. 16.) We want them to warrant title searches etc. 17.) We want the right to move the pipeline. 18.) We want them to build their own driveway across the open trench. 19.) We want to restrict pressure through the line. 20.) We want to know their schedule for scheduled maintenance. 21.) We want to restrict assignees to comply with this agreement. 22.) We want the payment apportioned; selling vs damages. (damages are not income).

 

[tommu56]

One thing I forgot was leverage for no reassignment of the ROW.
If some one else buys the company they have to renegotiate I wasn't successful on this but its something to try for.

tom

 

[ustmd]

Here is the initial proposal. Let it be known: 1.) My land is not for sale. 2.) The initial offer is low ball and unreasonable. If we don't get a reasonable offer exercise our rights: 1.) We will hire Appraisers. 2.) We will hire Attorneys. 3.) We will require a hearing before a court appointed panel. 4.) We will go to trial. 5.) We will appeal their decision if we are not satisfied.

TBN: Can you help me find these items in their agreement. I want to address them and make sure I haven't missed them somewhere in the fine print.

TBN: I'm interested in these items. 1.) We want to restrict all surface rights. 2.) We want to limit what they transport. 3.) We want allow only one single line. 4.) We want to enjoy our land as much as possible. 5.) We want to limit the hours of which they can enter our property. 6.) We want a defined timeline of when they will do the project. 7.) We want to restrict their activity to the easement only. 8.) We want to save some trees near their intended easement. 9.) We want to be held harmless against any damage to environment and environmental issues. 10.) We want to reserve the right to build ANY type of road or driveway across their easement. 11.) We want to be able to build a pond in close proximity. 12.) We want to restrict their ability to grant other easements within our easement area. 13.) We want compensation for any future disruption. 14.) We want abandonment defined. 15.) We want to restrict warning signs. 16.) We want them to warrant title searches etc. 17.) We want the right to move the pipeline. 18.) We want them to build their own driveway across the open trench. 19.) We want to restrict pressure through the line. 20.) We want to know their schedule for scheduled maintenance. 21.) We want to restrict assignees to comply with this agreement. 22.) We want the payment apportioned; selling vs damages. (damages are not income).

ITHINKICAN,

It is lawyer time.

Some the things you want may be covered in the agreement. For example, the "hold harmless" condition in paragraph 11 may indemnify you against environmental claims.

Some of the things, you won't get. You are not going to get the right to move the pipeline. You are not going to be able to limit what they transport in the pipe, etc. The signage maybe governed by state/Federal law.

Some of the things you want may be negotiable. For example, limiting hours of access except for emergencies, requiring them to construct their own access point.

A good real estate lawyer should be willing to consult with you on these issues and advise you. You might be able to tell the gas company to go pound sand, but I doubt it. Being Texas (land of Big oil and gas), I am betting this one will fall into eminent domain.

While I am all for standing up for your rights and getting what you are entitled to, the gas company has a lot more money and lawyers than you do. You need to know what battles you can win and what battles are lost cause before picking the fight.

 

[two_bit_score]

I sent this link to the OP earlier but thought it might be of interest to others so here it is:
http://api.ning.com/files/Z*S8JENLf...hYrZse4HnZs7/EricCampsPipeLineNegotiation.pdf

The writer is a premier practioner in OG&M law in Texas.

 

[two_bit_score]

There is an interesting post by John McFarland in his blog regarding "mineral classified lands" where the State of Texas owns Minerals including sand, gravel, etc as a matter of law due to reserving them when the land was originally granted.

Mr. McFarland is another extremely knowledgable and experienced OG&M lawyer who represents landowners. His blog is extremely informative and timely.

He also drafted the OG&M lease that is available as part of membership in the Texas Land and Mineral Owners Assoc.

Texas Land & Mineral Owners Association

Oil and Gas Lawyer Blog :: Published by Oil Gas and Mineral Law Attorney :: Oil and Gas Lease Lawyer :: John McFarland

 

[two_bit_score]

This lawyer spoke at the last meeting of TLMA and has excellent credentials.
Well, you said expensive. So here are some really good ones.

Joseph B.C. Fitzsimons - Uhl, Fitzsimons & Jewett, PLLC

 

[two_bit_score]

Here is the initial proposal. Let it be known: 1.) My land is not for sale. 2.) The initial offer is low ball and unreasonable. If we don't get a reasonable offer exercise our rights: 1.) We will hire Appraisers. 2.) We will hire Attorneys. 3.) We will require a hearing before a court appointed panel. 4.) We will go to trial. 5.) We will appeal their decision if we are not satisfied. .

One other thing I would suggest you put on your schedule is to go down to the courthouse and pull some files of condemnation cases involving the company you are dealing with. You should look at some closed as well as open and recently filed cases to get some perspective on how this may play out for you. The County Clerks office can help you find the cases under the name of the pipeline company. If there have been several cases involving this company they might recognize it right off and may have helpful info to share on things to look at. It always pays to know the clerks!

The closed cases will show you a lot as far as how the commissioners are ruling on damages in the condemnation cases. It can be eye opening to say the least.

.

 

[magicheater]

I sent this link to the OP earlier but thought it might be of interest to others so here it is:
http://api.ning.com/files/Z*S8JENLf...hYrZse4HnZs7/EricCampsPipeLineNegotiation.pdf

The writer is a premier practioner in OG&M law in Texas.

Really nice info! THANX!

 

[two_bit_score]

Really nice info! THANX!

Be sure to run it by a local lawyer if it's a Wis. situation.

Edit - pretty certain that everything in that paper has been brought up in negotiations with pipeline companies before and been found to work. Doesn't mean they are going to automatically agree to everything but it's something you should read before you even talk to a lawyer.

 

[dodge man]

Some of the problems you have with the easement are already addressed in the document. The other things you want to change are not reasonable and the gas company won't do it. I read the easement, and I would say its a pretty standard document.

An above post mentioned "know what battles are lost cause before picking the fight." I'm sorry to say, you have probably already lost this fight. If they have the right to condemn your property, its probably going to get built if they want it to. You can hire a lawyer, you may get some of the terms changed, but at what cost?

 

[RoyJackson]

An above post mentioned "know what battles are lost cause before picking the fight." I'm sorry to say, you have probably already lost this fight. If they have the right to condemn your property, its probably going to get built if they want it to. You can hire a lawyer, you may get some of the terms changed, but at what cost?

Not necessarily...
I'd expect the initial hearing to be lost...but you want to get in front of a jury...that's where one can make their case that the pipeline is not in the public interest.
But that's a decision only the OP can make...
However, before I'd go in that direction, I'd want to know how others being affected by this pipeline acted.

 

[two_bit_score]

Not necessarily...
I'd expect the initial hearing to be lost...but you want to get in front of a jury...that's where one can make their case that the pipeline is not in the public interest.
But that's a decision only the OP can make...
However, before I'd go in that direction, I'd want to know how others being affected by this pipeline acted.

First I'll say I could be wrong on this point......

But, I don't think he will ever get to a jury on the issue of the pipeline being in the public interest. The jury will only rule on the money issue. That will come after a trial here he will have to PROVE up every cent he asks for. That is not as easy to do as it sounds. I have seen it done but it's not easy and when I've seen it done it's been in conjunction with highways not pipelines.

I think the pipeline companies hire better lawyers than the State.
.

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