GC2410 Coldest Weather Starting problem

   / GC2410 Coldest Weather Starting problem #61  
Having the pad heater on the bottom is ideal. But, not mandatory.

Off road diesel is perfect for your tractor, and may cost less.

In Ohio, off road fuel is not subject to road tax. That equates to a considerable savings.

I can get what seems to be a better grade of fuel, for less money. And, for me, it's not too much further than the nearest gas station.

Delivery costs don't make that option cheaper.

I take a 15 gallon drum, or two, and fill them myself.
 
   / GC2410 Coldest Weather Starting problem #62  
That makes sense. I'm that would be quite a bit of savings in NY. We're taxed to death on everything! (I'm glad my wife quite smoking 2 years ago since it's $9/pack now!!) There has to be someone selling off road diesel somewhere around here. We have tons of construction companies so I'll look into that.

Do you have a transfer pump to go from drum to tractor?
 
   / GC2410 Coldest Weather Starting problem #63  
That makes sense. I'm that would be quite a bit of savings in NY. We're taxed to death on everything! (I'm glad my wife quite smoking 2 years ago since it's $9/pack now!!) There has to be someone selling off road diesel somewhere around here. We have tons of construction companies so I'll look into that.

Do you have a transfer pump to go from drum to tractor?

Yeah, I have a nice wall mounted 110 volt pump, with an automatic shut off nozzle.

Nothing I like less than getting diesel fuel on me. So, I decided to do it in a way where it would be as safe from that as possible.

I used to have a diesel mower, and I used to use the tractor a lot more than I do now. But, I am still glad I spent the money for the pump.
 
   / GC2410 Coldest Weather Starting problem #64  
Hey everyone, I hope some of you can help me. I have a GC2410 with 14 hours on it and have had starting problems when the temperature dips below zero.
I use #1 diesel with PS white bottle (2.25oz. to 2.5 gallons).
Tractor is parked in detached, non-insulated garage.
Tractor has magentic oil pan type heater turned on for 3 hours before starting.
I use the owners manual Coldest Weather Starting procedure, ON position for 2 seconds, GLOW position for 15 seconds, then start position.
I crank the engine for 10 seconds, then stop for 10 seconds, then crank the engine for another 10 seconds.
It usually takes about 4 cycle of this cranking and stopping to start the engine.
Outside temperature is -6 degrees F. (at 10:00am yesterday morning)
Garage temperature is +8 degrees F.

Maybe I need to follow the 2 seconds, 15 seconds procedure for each try at starting the engine?
Maybe I need to crank for more than 10 seconds?
Maybe I need to increase the oil pan heater time more than 3 hours?
Maybe I need to get a different type of heater?

F.Y.I. , I ordered this tractor with a freeze type block heater and the MF dealer installed this magnetic type oil pan heater. I questioned him about why I didn't receive the type of heater that I ordered and he told me that "the freeze plug type heater would not fit".
This statement is different then whats on the MF owners manual, page 35:
"Installation of accessory engine block heater is recommended in cold weather conditions. Contact your dealer."
Maybe someone can tell me if a block type heater is available and fits this tractor?
Thanks, KC
I got lost in the too-many-pages of posts on this. Here's the best info you will get -- 1) For the engine heater go to Sears and buy an in-line radiator hose heater. Plugs in the wall and keeps warm water circulating through the entire engine and cooling system. Cheap, simple to install and effective. 2) Anytime you are operating below around 10 degrees, mix your fuel 50/50 with kerosene. Otherwise the fuel will gel on you. Additives are NOT the way to go. Every heavy equipment operator in the northern tier of states does this and it works 100% of the time with no problems. Those guys are not playing around, they are earning a living & depend on it. You should be fine from here on.
 
   / GC2410 Coldest Weather Starting problem #65  
I got lost in the too-many-pages of posts on this. Here's the best info you will get -- 1) For the engine heater go to Sears and buy an in-line radiator hose heater. Plugs in the wall and keeps warm water circulating through the entire engine and cooling system. Cheap, simple to install and effective. 2) Anytime you are operating below around 10 degrees, mix your fuel 50/50 with kerosene. Otherwise the fuel will gel on you. Additives are NOT the way to go. Every heavy equipment operator in the northern tier of states does this and it works 100% of the time with no problems. Those guys are not playing around, they are earning a living & depend on it. You should be fine from here on.


An inline hose heater would be pretty difficult to put on a GC. Partially because there is no room for it, and not much straight hose. And, also because the hoses are very small diameter. Like around 1 1/4".

While adding kero, and many will even recommend gasoline, has been known to work well for cold weather ops, these are not bullet proof heavy equipment engines, or semi trucks. And we now have to deal with ultra low sulfur diesel fuel. So, this is a different ball game.

With the sulfur out of the fuel, fuel lubricity is an issue. Injection pumps, and other parts need that lubricity to minimize wear.

Studies show, adding kero, or gas to ULSD fuel, will reduce fuel lubricity. And, the only way to make that back up, is with additives.
 
   / GC2410 Coldest Weather Starting problem #66  
An inline hose heater would be pretty difficult to put on a GC. Partially because there is no room for it, and not much straight hose. And, also because the hoses are very small diameter. Like around 1 1/4".

While adding kero, and many will even recommend gasoline, has been known to work well for cold weather ops, these are not bullet proof heavy equipment engines, or semi trucks. And we now have to deal with ultra low sulfur diesel fuel. So, this is a different ball game.

With the sulfur out of the fuel, fuel lubricity is an issue. Injection pumps, and other parts need that lubricity to minimize wear.

Studies show, adding kero, or gas to ULSD fuel, will reduce fuel lubricity. And, the only way to make that back up, is with additives.

On the block heater, I'll let the owner decide what he can and cannot fit in. I recommend the in-line water heating type. Used them on VW diesels for years. The size hose is not an issue. On the sulfur and lubricity and all that , ray66v, your discussion is mostly irrelevant to a riding lawn mower. First, the only time you ever have to do this is in extremely cold weather, not all the time. "Studies show..." amounts to your opinion. There are no studies that show that any diesel engine owner EVER had a failure because of the lack of lubricity in his fuel used short term for a few tanks. By the way, how much are you doing with a GC2410 in subzero weather ?? Heavy equipment operators in all the northern tier states are running machines in the $100,000 and above realm and they run 50/50 mix with kerosene if it is going below 10 degrees. I have first hand knowledge of that in northern Vermont. They are not "risking" a lawnmower. I'll side with them. No diesel engine manufacturer recommends additives by the way (Name one.) There is also no credible reason why the GC2410 would stand using kerosene mix any less well than large heavy equipment. What's the basis for that ? And while I am disagreeing with you, No, it is not true that "many" will recommend using gasoline to solve the gel problem at low temperatures. VW recommended 10% gasoline in their 1979 manuals. They quickly retracted that when General Motors research found that 10% gasoline mixtures were dangerously explosive -- mores so than gas alone. GM cautioned diesel auto owners NOT to mix gasoline with the fuel. You cannot find ANY manufacturer today who suggests mixing gasoline with diesel fuel to prevent gel.
 
   / GC2410 Coldest Weather Starting problem #67  
On the block heater, I'll let the owner decide what he can and cannot fit in. I recommend the in-line water heating type. Used them on VW diesels for years. The size hose is not an issue. On the sulfur and lubricity and all that , ray66v, your discussion is mostly irrelevant to a riding lawn mower. First, the only time you ever have to do this is in extremely cold weather, not all the time. "Studies show..." amounts to your opinion. There are no studies that show that any diesel engine owner EVER had a failure because of the lack of lubricity in his fuel used short term for a few tanks. By the way, how much are you doing with a GC2410 in subzero weather ?? Heavy equipment operators in all the northern tier states are running machines in the $100,000 and above realm and they run 50/50 mix with kerosene if it is going below 10 degrees. I have first hand knowledge of that in northern Vermont. They are not "risking" a lawnmower. I'll side with them. No diesel engine manufacturer recommends additives by the way (Name one.) There is also no credible reason why the GC2410 would stand using kerosene mix any less well than large heavy equipment. What's the basis for that ? And while I am disagreeing with you, No, it is not true that "many" will recommend using gasoline to solve the gel problem at low temperatures. VW recommended 10% gasoline in their 1979 manuals. They quickly retracted that when General Motors research found that 10% gasoline mixtures were dangerously explosive -- mores so than gas alone. GM cautioned diesel auto owners NOT to mix gasoline with the fuel. You cannot find ANY manufacturer today who suggests mixing gasoline with diesel fuel to prevent gel.

Since I own one of these "lawnmowers", I will tell you again, there is no good place to put an inline heater.

Hose size does matter, if you can't get one that fits. Adapters will make it longer, and even more impossible to find a place to put it.

I will also tell you, I have never had an issue with my fuel gelling. I buy a quality product, with quality ADDITIVES in it. If you want to ignore the science proving the need, and the ability of some additives to increase lubricity, that's up to you. It was my point though.

These "lawnmowers" are not $100,000 pieces of equipment. To require a study to prove they are not built as well, is ludicrous.

"Many" truck drivers I know, used, (some are now retied), or still use gasoline, for winter ops. Because you don't know them, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

Why not run kerosene all the time, since it can't hurt anything?

Speaking of manufacturer recommendations, I don't see anywhere in my manual where they recommend using Kero for winter ops. You would think if it can do no harm to my "lawnmower", and is the perfect solution, they would have recommended it...:confused3:
 
   / GC2410 Coldest Weather Starting problem #68  
It was 16F yesterday, and finally got up to around 24 when I got home. I tried starting it last night and I couldn't even move the throttle lever forward to help it start so it looks like I need to do some work this weekend. One under the axle to warm the hydro fluid, and one on the engine.
 
   / GC2410 Coldest Weather Starting problem #69  
It was 16F yesterday, and finally got up to around 24 when I got home. I tried starting it last night and I couldn't even move the throttle lever forward to help it start so it looks like I need to do some work this weekend. One under the axle to warm the hydro fluid, and one on the engine.

Were you snow blowing during the prior use? Some have had issues with frozen throttles after blowing snow. My Bolens would do that. I had to open the throttle some, and apply the choke when I shut it down, so it would be ready for the next start.

I don't blow snow with mine. And, it has not frozen..yet.
 
   / GC2410 Coldest Weather Starting problem #70  
Were you snow blowing during the prior use? Some have had issues with frozen throttles after blowing snow. My Bolens would do that. I had to open the throttle some, and apply the choke when I shut it down, so it would be ready for the next start.

I don't blow snow with mine. And, it has not frozen..yet.


Nope. We don't even have snow, and I don't have a snow blower. I just started it up to test when it was 30 out without using a heater.
 
 
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