Generalized Rant

[timswi]

how about it flash a code you could lookup in your manual.. my old 84 pontiac would do that.. jumper 2 terminals on the plug under the dash and then wait for it to flash out the codes.. then look them up.


soundguy

You could do that with OBD1 but not OBD2...Good advice for the "classic" vehicle owners out there though.

 

[Soundguy]

that was my point.. why not something similarly usefull....


soundguy

 

[eepete]

The drop in display cost coupled with the fact that they are used more means that the days of flashing are gone.
I did a computer system (network router/encryptor) which had a single bit that went to a speaker. During the boot cycle, if there was a problem, it told you in morse code what the problem was. Management nuked it- "no one knows morse code these days". It still had the speaker, they just didn't want people freaking out when it would just start "randomly beeping" instead of working.

Everyone who is in product development treats the end customer like a mushroom.

Finally, on the high end cars with GPS and big LCD displays, there is zero excuse for not saying exactly what's wrong. In fact, if you can store all the maps for the US you can store drawings of the car to point to some of the problems. BTW, I never want a car "Powered by Microsoft".

Pete

 

[dave1949]

Finally, on the high end cars with GPS and big LCD displays, there is zero excuse for not saying exactly what's wrong. In fact, if you can store all the maps for the US you can store drawings of the car to point to some of the problems. BTW, I never want a car "Powered by Microsoft".

Pete

Excellent point.
What do you have against an occassional reboot at 65 mph?
Dave.

 

[Soundguy]

I agree.. anyu car with some sort of built in LCD.. that just begs for a diagnostice help center. Heck.. some vehicles have a large lcd for the radio/cd/mp3/satalite radio setup.. that could even be usefull..

Of course.. we all know why they don't do this.. they want you to bring the car to them for service....

soundguy

The drop in display cost coupled with the fact that they are used more means that the days of flashing are gone.
I did a computer system (network router/encryptor) which had a single bit that went to a speaker. During the boot cycle, if there was a problem, it told you in morse code what the problem was. Management nuked it- "no one knows morse code these days". It still had the speaker, they just didn't want people freaking out when it would just start "randomly beeping" instead of working.

Everyone who is in product development treats the end customer like a mushroom.

Finally, on the high end cars with GPS and big LCD displays, there is zero excuse for not saying exactly what's wrong. In fact, if you can store all the maps for the US you can store drawings of the car to point to some of the problems. BTW, I never want a car "Powered by Microsoft".

Pete

 

[jayste]

As far as the service department comments I've seen similar situations. At one time I spent a "little" time in the WAITING room of a Nissan dealership on a problem they FINALLY fixed when they redesigned the part! Anyway, (mini-rant) the WAITING room had glass all around and while all of the other suckers...uh, I mean customers wher watching TV or working on their computers I was watchin the service guru's work their magic. I finally got curious and went out and stood away so I could listen as well. Ha! Talk about a racket! Seems like every person that came in for "service" (especially the elderly and female) got the old, "we've taken the liberty to check your fluids, Mam, and here are the samples of them". They show them the "color" of the fluids and show them the little example of how they should look and SHAZAM! "Oh, yes, that doesn't look good to me either, go ahead and change out my engine oil, anti-freeze, transmission fluid, power steering, refrigerant...............please" Ahhhhh! And then when mine was done I got the LIST of recommened services at the current mileage thing! I'm all for service when it needs it but MAN! These guys must work on commission!

 

[Chuck52]

They do like those fluid changes, don't they. I've had two shops tell me I need to have the tranny in my 2003 Impala flushed every 35K....for $160 a pop. Unless they read the service notices, and then they want to use Dexron VI instead of III and charge over $200.

Chuck

 

[NuBota]

The difference between a technician and a mechanic..I'll take the mechanic any day. he knows how things work. The tech knows what the computer tells him..And this is coming from a computer guy.

Hah! That's the irony! When the computer breaks, then what....?


And one thing I've noticed - good mechanics are generally pretty computer savvy - diagnostic skills are diagnostic skills - only the "system" is different.

I also remember long ago - I was helping my friend work on his car - he was in his last year of college as an engineering student (I was college drop out). I was explaining the venturi on his carburetor and he perked up - he finally got to see a practical use of something he learned in school - he still couldn't turn a wrench to save his life....

 

[Cat_Driver]

To be honest I don't think I have been to a service place that I actually came home satisfied.

Here's a couple that I remember and there are many more.

Had a rear stabilizer, and front steering stabilizer put on my motor home 100 miles from home, tgo in it to go home the rig pulled hard to the right, turned around for a fix, two times later it drives straight, got home to check the rear stabilizer - never installed yet I was charged. I made them pay ME for fuel to come back to prove no rear stabilizer.

Took wifes car to the dealer because new cars fron tire kept going flat, they checked it and said all was fine, next day flat, took it to Goodyear they pulled out a 12 penny nail.

Had a towing break installed in my Jeep the battery has gone dead ever since they touched it, I disconnected what they did and the battery is fine.

Many, many oil changes with problems too many to mention. MAny put too much oil in after I checked.

My air conditioning was blowing out at 72 degrees Service manager said that it was within spec.

Had a leak fixed in the roof of my New Sprinter, it rained last week and it was a waterfall inside the van.

So I'm wondering do any service people do their job because it's not only one service area it's many, and I for one am sick of it.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

Excellent point.
What do you have against an occassional reboot at 65 mph?
Dave.

A true "Blue Screen of Death".

 

[dooleysm]

I did some work with a heavy equipment manufacturer in a previous life and had detailed knowledge of their proprietary ECM datalink (the language that electronic components speak). Given the mess datalink was in, I'm not surprised at anything that happens with my vehicles from a computer standpoint. I feel like a vehicle's not properly 'broken in' until the Check Engine light comes on and stays on.

 

[radioman]

A sub-rant: When going to the "big-box" part stores, how many of you have to spin the monitior around to figure out what part you need because the dude with the lip rings, who was making chalupas last week, can't figure it out? AHHHHHHH!

joining in the rant--- AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
Same here, I had to turn the monitor to me so I can point out the darned part I need, not what they want to sell me.

 

[Soundguy]

have had to do that with spark plug xrefs at autozone before.. even had to lean over the counter to point at the box that the counter monkey couldn't find in front of them...

soundguy

 

[dave1949]

A true "Blue Screen of Death".

LOL, Good One.
Dave.

 

[timswi]

Hah! That's the irony! When the computer breaks, then what....?

QUOTE]

Irony and sarcasm...My two favorite things

 

[jinman]

joining in the rant--- AHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!
Same here, I had to turn the monitor to me so I can point out the darned part I need, not what they want to sell me.

Not part of the auto repair rant, but a sidenote. The last time I was in my New Holland dealer, they had a big 42" flatscreen mounted behind the parts counter facing outward. Everything they pulled up on their computer on the counter showed up on that screen in clear view of the customer. It sure made it easy to point out the needed part on the illustration and you even saw your receipt before it printed. Cool!

 

[Bird]

I haven't seen that anywhere yet, Jim, but that sounds like a great idea. Maybe it'll catch on.

 

[Western]

That would be ok Bird, until they start that in a doctors office....

 

[WTA]

I could jump in big time on this topic but I'll try to hold my temper.

When I retired from the service I started working at Ford and GM dealers. I pretty quickly became a master certified tech at both and then I went to work at a tractor dealer. I went to every school they had too.

I liked it for a while till I figured out the game they are playing.
The first and biggest problem with mechanics and garages is the flat rate pay system they rip their machanics and customers off with. There is every bit of incentive to do a job fast but none whatsoever to do it right under this system. I've worked at two tractor dealers now that paid us by the hour we actually worked on a job. I really liked it. The customers were more involved in the whole process and all around people were happier. Even when I had to overhaul an engine or transmission on a tractor which as you can imagine takes quite a few hours I never once heard a complaint. Generally pay by the hour rates are much lower is the big thing plus I was allowed the time to do it right.

Now try rebuilding an engine on flat rate. First the tech gets in a rush to get it done under the time allowed most of the time. That's just not good.
Then if you go over the time because of inexperience or other problems, the tech is just screwed and working for free. Do any of you think the dealers care? They don't.
Out here, mechanics are all flat rate and underpaid to boot. I did it for a couple of years after we moved here for a big GM dealer and one year at another tractor dealer. The dealers were charging between 80 and 120 dollars per hour. I was getting between 12 and 18. I was used to making over 20 before we moved here. Don't tell me that is all going to overhead on the shop. It's not. It's going in the owners pocket.
I hated that gm dealer so bad that when I wasn't working on a car I sat on my tool box. Managers came by and told me to sweep the floor or mop and if it wasn't my two bays I told them where to stick it. I kept my bays clean and wasn't doing squat for anyone else unless they wanted to pay me for it. That's just how it is going to be.
That dealer also had a 100% markup on parts over what they paid for them. How is that for customer service?
I did alignments and ABS repairs there mostly but was also the vibration analysis guy and a few other special problems that I got. I took good care of my customers and fixed their cars right as I always have even if I had to do something for free but it got to a point where it just wasn't worth it anymore. I was spending so much time fixing stuff other mechanics screwed up, even at my own dealer, that I just couldn't do it anymore. I was getting at the point where I would throw wrenches at someone when I caught them shortcutting a job. My manager got one upside his head when he tried to tell me to set the toe and let it go on a new truck that had pretty bad alignments problems.
I was trying to fix it right and he wanted me to rig it because it was warranty work. Not going to happen.
I've been self employed for the last several years and mostly staying on my farm. I have made unscrewing other mechanics work a hobby of mine sortof. You guys would not believe the things I see every day that flat rate shops have done.
On my own truck that I bought last year, a 1 ton 4x4 ford with the powerstroke engine, the dealer put my rear drum brakes on the wrong side and backwards. I'm not kidding!
I also have a receipt from the last owner for the "new" clutch they put in. It was supposed to be a single mass flywheel and clutch kit. 2600 dollars.
It was a new dual mass flywheel and original clutch. The pilot bearing was missing and throwout was also original and completely shot. It had about 10,000 miles on it since they claimed to have replaced the entire clutch and never worked right so I finally took it apart when I had the time and found out the original owner had just been plain robbed.
I could go on and on.

There is just no incentive to do anything right anymore at shops when the shop makes all the money and the mechanics are getting robbed. It's feast or famine for a lot of them when they work on your cars.

 

[Bedlam]

I would have to agree on the flat rate concept.But its been around for ages. Back in the 70's my dad was a mechanic for a ford dealership. He would take the time to put all the screws back in a dash lets say, but the buy next to him would throw most of the screws into a bucket.The only plus was that i would get a bucket every few months of various bolts etc.
My dad wouldnt change his was and continued to work (quality). But the paycheck got to the post of just not worth it and he went across the street to GM parts and worked steady pay etc.
Seems to me you( a customer) would want something in the middle. You would not want to pay for an oil change buy the hour but you wouldnt expect it to be all that time consuming.
Its a balance of both worlds that a customer would want.
I prefere a smaller shop that will give an extimate to do the job flat out, I would expect them to tell me that there was a problem and they would need more time and money but thats where the trust come into play..