Generators - Backfeeding - 120V

   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #121  
I assumed that was the case, until a few days ago I flipped the main on my sub panel to work on my HVAC (fan was frozen with ice) and it shut the whole house off. Since that sub panel had the ability to shut the whole house off I wasn't sure if that meant it feed from the main panel or not.

then you have a wiring problem, or you don't understand how the panels work. based on this comment someone will need to see it, and provide direction before you tie in a interlock. Are you sure you didn't turn off the main panel instead?
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #122  
Positive, I was about 60 feet from the main panel. Lol

I flipped the main power on the sub panel and my wife thought the power went out.

I'm not doing this work myself, just working on figuring up roughly what I'm looking at.
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #123  
Positive, I was about 60 feet from the main panel. Lol

I flipped the main power on the sub panel and my wife thought the power went out.

I'm not doing this work myself, just working on figuring up roughly what I'm looking at.
are you sure you didn't just cut a lighting circuit? if you understand how a sub panel is wired. its literally impossible to shut off a main panel with a sub panel, that is fed by one.
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #124  
View attachment 730249

Above is inside, I'm calling my main panel.

View attachment 730250
IMG_20220121_173357305.jpg


This is a small panel servicing just HVAC .

Shut this one off, the main power in this small box, my wife said the whole house shut down .
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #125  
Maybe I have it backwards, and the small panel is actually my main since it is right at the meter, and the one in my house is a sub-fed from that one?
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #126  
I only see one picture, what amperage is that main breaker? at the top? what is the amperage on the panel inside.

I would need to see the inside wiring of this, but yes, this is primarily the main breaker panel in this setup, what is odd though is you don't have a large breaker for the inside panel, so, there must be a buss bar inside, attached to the main breaker at the top of this panel, at least this is the assumption from 2000 miles away.
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #127  
They're both 200 amp boxes. It posted as an attachment for some reason. Clicking the attachment should open the photo. Trying again.

IMG_20220121_173219872.jpg
IMG_20220121_173238485.jpg
IMG_20220121_173357305.jpg
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #128  
The breaker under the meter is the main breaker to entire house. the indoor panel is a sub panel, feeding from lugs in the meter panel.
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #129  
The breaker under the meter is the main breaker to entire house. the indoor panel is a sub panel, feeding from lugs in the meter panel.

Thats what I assumed. I assume the inside panel is old, and had just a basic meter box in the past.

@grsthegreat do they make a interlock setup for this outside panel? @mwemaxxowner the interlock kit would need to go on the outside meter panel.
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #130  
Awesome. Thank you fellas (and fellets if one of you is a lady) for helping me sort through that. It's good for me to just know how they work together.
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #131  
None of the panels are old, the house is only about a year old, by the way. However, it is a modular. So the main panel was in place when the home was manufactured, then (I assume), the small panel was installed after the house was set and the power line was run.
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #133  
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #134  
A subpanel within the same residence is not required to have a main breaker, however a main breaker panel is generally cheaper, at wholesale prices, than a main lug panel mainly due to the fact there are more produced and stocked. When i used to order parts for large house jobs with multiple level subpanels, the prices for a 100amp main lug or a 100amp main breaker were nearly identical.

if the subpanel is in a separate location on property, like a barn or shop, than a main breaker is required.
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #135  
I’m not endorsing the OPs method of backfeeding but technically what he originally asked is entirely correct. He can run a second 120v line (hot and neutral) from the same generator to a circuit on the other side of his panel and all 120v loads will be powered.

He stated in the post he doesn’t need 240v. There is no risk to the 240v loads as they would see 0 volts.
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #136  
I’m not endorsing the OPs method of backfeeding but technically what he originally asked is entirely correct. He can run a second 120v line (hot and neutral) from the same generator to a circuit on the other side of his panel and all 120v loads will be powered.

He stated in the post he doesn’t need 240v. There is no risk to the 240v loads as they would see 0 volts.
based on this photo, he has it made. throw the interlock on the outside, and put the generator plug on the bottom and a breaker in the outside panel, and he doesn't even need a hole in the wall. wish I was setup like this.
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #137  
based on this photo, he has it made. throw the interlock on the outside, and put the generator plug on the bottom and a breaker in the outside panel, and he doesn't even need a hole in the wall. wish I was setup like this.
I think Chilliwack was talking about the original poster of the thread, but you're right. Now that I understand that's my main panel, this is fantastic news. Won't even have to buy much wire.


Over where that panel is will be a good location for my generator (that I don't own yet). It won't take much cord to get it pretty far away from where we'll spend most of our time. Help reduce the noise pollution inside when it's running.
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #138  
On a generator panel, how do you keep the generator from back feeding to all the breakers in the house?
I recently wired in a generator sub panel. It was wired to code with a permit and passed inspection. I did all the work myself so I can answer questions about my particular code compliant and inspection passed installation. This sub panel gets power from two places, the main panel and the generator. It has a big switch, commonly called a contactor, that switches the supplied power from either the main panel or the generator. My generator sub panel has many slots for breakers.
The following describes how the sub panel is wired:
An 80 amp breaker was put into the main panel to supply power to the sub panel. The wire connecting this breaker to the sub panel is sized to carry 100 amps. Remember, and this is important, circuit breakers in your panels are sized to protect the wires they are connected to. They are not for protecting anything connected to those wires. Like toasters or dishwashers. Or people.
For every circuit in the house I wanted to be energized, or powered, from the generator I had to put a breaker into one of the slots in the sub panel. Then the wire for each circuit was disconnected from the breaker in the main panel and connected to the same size breaker in the sub panel with a wire that was run to the main panel from the beaker in the sub panel.
I know this might sound a bit confusing. I will try to simplify a bit. Power from the main panel goes through, in my case, an 80 amp circuit breaker to the generator sub panel. The power passes through this breaker in the main panel to a switch in the sub panel through which all power must flow. From this switch the power is distributed to the breakers in the sub panel. And these breakers i the sub panel are then connected to the wires in the main panel that were disconnected from breakers in the main panel.
What this means is that the sub panel is always energized from the main panel during normal conditions. This also means that the main panel will have several beakers that are no longer connected to anything because the breakers in the sub panel are now supplying power to circuits that used to get power from the main panel.
Now, finally, we get to the question you asked. The switch, or contactor, in the sub panel, will either connect to the generator or the main panel. Since the power from the main panel flows through this switch and then to breakers in the sub panel and then to circuits that are no longer connected to the main panel, it controls where the power comes from and where it goes. The switch has only two options, either main power or generator, it cannot receive power from both at the same time. And since the circuits that are to be supplied from the generator have been disconnected from the main panel and transferred to the sub panel there is no danger of the generator powering, or energizing, the main panel and hence anything connected to it, like somebody fixing a downed power line.
All the circuits described above have assumed a 120 volt circuit, with one hot wire and one neutral wire. If a 240 volt circuit is used it will have 2 breakers. If you look at the main panel in a house in the USA all the 240 volt circuits will have two breakers tied together. So in reality it is two 120 volt circuits that are powering the same device and are switched at the same time using the breakers tied together.
I have not mentioned the neutral and ground wires. They are treated differently and are not switched with breakers nor are they switched by the sub panel switch. The neutral wire is tied to the ground wire in the main panel. The sub panel neutral and ground are both bonded to the main panel neutral and ground.
I know there is a lot of info above and it may be a bit confusing to folks who don't do anything with electricity. However, with a bit of study and reading a few times it should make sense. And even if the connection scheme might seem a little convoluted once a person draws a picture or actually starts to make the connections it becomes pretty clear. Most importantly the way it is done is to prevent electrocution.
Too many times I read here and on other sites messages from folks who want to connect their generator in an unsafe manner and want directions on how to do so. People who insist that nothing can go wrong because they are always in control or their spouse knows just how to do the connection to prevent sending electricity where it shouldn't go. If they know so much why are they asking for directions.
Anyway, I hope the above helps and I will be happy to answer any questions that I can. If you want I would even talk on the phone. The most important thing is to be safe.
Eric
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #139  
I assumed that was the case, until a few days ago I flipped the main on my sub panel to work on my HVAC (fan was frozen with ice) and it shut the whole house off. Since that sub panel had the ability to shut the whole house off I wasn't sure if that meant it feed from the main panel or not.

That's not a sub-panel then.
 
   / Generators - Backfeeding - 120V #140  

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