Geo-Thermal heat pumps

[WF_Inc]

Flatheadyoungin,

We are disappointed by your comments. We are continuously looking for ways to set us apart from our competitors, which is why we are using social media, such as TractorByNet, to help consumers with their questions or concerns. We realize that there are a number of geothermal manufactures that offer quality products. We wish you the best with your future geothermal purchase.

WaterFurnace International, Inc.

 

[roamerr]

My parents have a Geothermal Syatem that was installed in 2005. I love the quietness and their utilities do seem slightly less (approx $200 a month for all electric on a 3000 sq ft home in Va). The system has required more maintenance but mostly due to the damper controls. Two of the damper controls have been replaced under warranty. The compressor was also recently an issue but the warranty covered that also.

I am building a new home and just went normal Trane Heat Pump. I like the geo's but the upfront cost and slightly higher maintenace just scared me away from spending the extra $$$. If my parents can make it the next 10 years without issue then GeoThermal made sense. My experience with heatpumps has been great -- normally 20+ years with no issues.

 

[Redneck in training]

We have WF system with a pond loop. I retrospect we should have installed a ground loop. Our pond has a leak and so far never filled to more than half in spite of major investment in repairs. Nevertheless the unit provided heat all winter few years back when there was only a puddle of water in the pond and about a third of the heat exchanger was above the ice. The rest was also apparently covered with ice because the temperature of the inlet liquid was 27 F.
The guy who installed the system has a machine that can install ground loop without major digging. It is a drill that makes a hole under ground filled with a drilling polymer. The trajectory of the drill is calculated such a way that it comes above ground in desired place. Then they remove the drilling head and hook up two hoses (connected by a "U" at the far end) to it and pull the hoses under the ground. The drilling polymer provides good contact with the soil and prevents damage to the hoses. They can install the loops even under your house.
When all the branches are installed then they are connected together and to the heat pump.

We heat about 3800 sqft with floor heating. Our typical electrical bill is about 200 USD. Since we have two meters (separate meter is just for heating) the highest heating bill was 110 USD out of 230 USD total bill in January.

We have two propane fireplaces as backup heat when the power goes out. The house cools down at about 2 deg over 8 hours at about 10F ambient so it would take more than a week without power and heat before things would start to freeze up.
How much it cost to install? I don't want to know. It was expensive despite we did a lot of installation work by ourselves. We bought it because we wanted floor heating and only source of energy at our place is electricity or propane. Well people by Porsches and nobody ask them when they break even. I rest my case.

 

[Flatheadyoungin]

yeah, maybe i was a bit hard on you guys......if the owner of the system is satisfied, who am i to question it.......

as you know, it's such an investment and a leap of faith- even though the technology is there- i just hate to see anyone not satisfied.....i guess it's my own fear of the same thing happening to me!

i met with one of your waterfurnace distributors at a home and garden show two years ago....helpful and friendly (most are before the sale)......then i decided to do it myself......so this thread didn't have much bearing on my decision, as i pointed out earlier, to go with another brand.......and, heck, in 2-3 years i may change my mind again as the industry changes......how much available time i have, etc....

like i said, if you made him happy, then you've done the best you can.........

i think i helped to hijack an otherwise great thread....sorry to all....

keep the info. coming....

Flatheadyoungin,

We are disappointed by your comments. We are continuously looking for ways to set us apart from our competitors, which is why we are using social media, such as TractorByNet, to help consumers with their questions or concerns. We realize that there are a number of geothermal manufactures that offer quality products. We wish you the best with your future geothermal purchase.

WaterFurnace International, Inc.

 

[doxford jim]

like i said, if you made him happy, then you've done the best you can.........

i think i helped to hijack an otherwise great thread....sorry to all....

keep the info. coming....[/QUOTE]


Flatheadyoungin,

You post is just as appropriate as any other in this thread. Without these interesting comments - both pro and con, there would be little advantage to this thread.

Each has their own reason for what they do. In my case the WF system was already installed in the place I purchased. I would never buy another unless I won the lottery - I am 65 and would not see the full payback period through.

If I built another home (very doubtful - money short :-( )I would build with 8" thick walls, triple glazing and very thick insulation in the roof. A modern wood stove or gas stove would probably be my choice. Given the increasing number power outages these days (old equipment, crazy winter weather etc), it would be very advantageous to be able to keep the heat running using a back up generator for power. With the more convential systems the power requirement is greatly reduced. If other technologies/ideas can be used (solar heating, water turbine etc.) then great.

Anyway, any information posted will always help someone with a lot of questions !

Cheers

Jim

 

[RangerCap]

Scotty- do a search for heat pumps.... What's now called "geothermal" used to be called "water-source." There've been quite a few discussions on TBN about these.

I have one in my house, which was built in 1986. Still working. Mine's a closed-loop system, running right down the well hole alongside the water pump.

My system runs at about 3.25:1 (compared with electric, which is assumed to be 1:1). That is to say, for every KWH I put in, I get 3.25 KWH back out in terms of heat. Newer systems, with variable-speed scroll compressors and variable-speed fans, claim as much as 5:1 under the right conditions. "Water Furnace" as a brand seems to be well regarded.

As an HVAC co-worker used to say, "Remember- it costs less to move heat than to create it!" Right on. I've never regretted the decision to go with my Water-Source (sorry, guess I'm just old school) heat pump.

IrvingJ

I attended the NH Home Show a few weeks ago in Manchester and talked to several geothermal vendors. They all told me that right now geothermal can only be used effectively in conjunction with forced-air heat systems. In other words you need the ducts. I have base board forced hot water.
Does this jive with what you know?

Thanks,
RangerCap
aka John
Goffstown

 

[whistlepig]

We have a Water Furnace ground loop system that was installed in 1999. The only problem we have had is that the blower motor quit working. This was replaced under the 10 year warranty. We only paid for a service call. I would say that 11 years with only one problem that was taken care of, with out question, by the manufacturer is a pretty gosh darn good track record. To me our Water Furnace system is trouble free. The benefits of a good geothermal system are hard to explain until you have had one. They are 300% efficient, maintenance free, and a true pleasure to have. The cost of our heating and cooling is not an issue. The change of seasons makes little or no difference in our budget. No matter how cold or hot they are. From reading some of these posts it seems that a nuclear power plant, with all it's issues, is installed in a house. That is not the case. These geothermal systems are the way to go. The cash up front is pretty astronomical. I'll agree to that. As far as faulting the quality of this system and it's function? I can not understand that at all.

 

[Chilly807]

IrvingJ

I attended the NH Home Show a few weeks ago in Manchester and talked to several geothermal vendors. They all told me that right now geothermal can only be used effectively in conjunction with forced-air heat systems. In other words you need the ducts. I have base board forced hot water.
Does this jive with what you know?

Thanks,
RangerCap
aka John
Goffstown

I'd have to disagree with them. We have infloor radiant heat piping supplied by a closed-loop geothermal system, and it works just fine. What they should have told you was that the geothermal system you would need depends on the thermal efficiency of your house and the size of the baseboard heaters you already have installed.

However, having said that, I may have to eat my words... if you need water temperature beyond the capability of the geothermal system to provide, it won't work. The hottest water we require for our house is around 90-95 degrees F, which translates to a floor temperature of approximately 80-85 F degrees at an outside temp. of -20 C. Sorry about the mixed F and C, we have the heating system set for F, and the outside temp is measured in C in Canada.

We have a 3-ton system, which heats our 2000 sq. ft house reliably down to about -20 C, beyond that it has trouble keeping up with the heat loss.

After two years, I'd say it's costing us about $600-800 per year for heat, which is less than half of what we used to pay for our older, smaller house with oil-fired forced air heat.

Chilly

 

[RangerCap]

Right. My heat guy told me the boiler delivers roughly 140 degree water to the base boards.

RangerCap

 

[irvingj]

RangerCap- Yes, that's what I thought, but with the advent of in-floor radiant, I don't know why it wouldn't work. I'm not sure if baseboard would operate well enough at the lower temps generated by a heat pump.

Chilly807 is right on about that temp, though... Although none of us would probably choose to keep our house at 90F, that's near the limit of efficient heat pump operation. If you can live with that temp in a hot-water situation, no problem. Chilly807's system seems jut fine in that regard, however most of us are accustomed to 130+ F water temps in a heating system... and, for that matter, same with forced air....

I really like in-floor radiant; had a girlfriend in the mid-60's whose house had it back then. Really comfortable, and no dust bunnies created by air movement. However, I've always felt that --even here in NH-- there's a period of time in the summer where A/C is a godsend, hence the forced air in my situation.

The main issue with heat pump forced air is to have ducts oversized to mimize air velocity, since even air at 90F, being below body temp, feels cool if it arrives in a breeze.