Getting gouged by the forest service for special use permit after 40 years

[CliffordK]

What does the $15, $100, or $400 cover?

Access across public land should be FREE.

Is this a personal residence, or a business residence? Do you have a "farm" that is identified as a business for tax purposes? Do you haul logs off of your property for business purposes? Haul anything else off for business purposes?

Is the Forest Service maintaining a road for just you, or a couple of neighbors that they would otherwise be abandoning? Do they maintain your driveway? How long is the driveway across forest service land?

Perhaps an option would be to try to get your right of way titled to you. How much? Taxes?

Write a letter, and at least hand deliver it to your local congressmen and senators. I would argue to get all the fees cancelled. There should also be an appeal procedure that the Forest Service uses. Talk to them. You may be required to pay the fees in advance.

If you don't appeal now, undoubtedly next year's fees will be at least $400.

 

[BeltfedGoodness]

What is the penalty for not paying it?

 

[Hoodoo creek]

What does the $15, $100, or $400 cover?

Access across public land should be FREE.

Is this a personal residence, or a business residence? Do you have a "farm" that is identified as a business for tax purposes? Do you haul logs off of your property for business purposes? Haul anything else off for business purposes?

Is the Forest Service maintaining a road for just you, or a couple of neighbors that they would otherwise be abandoning? Do they maintain your driveway? How long is the driveway across forest service land?

Perhaps an option would be to try to get your right of way titled to you. How much? Taxes?

Write a letter, and at least hand deliver it to your local congressmen and senators. I would argue to get all the fees cancelled. There should also be an appeal procedure that the Forest Service uses. Talk to them. You may be required to pay the fees in advance.

If you don't appeal now, undoubtedly next year's fees will be at least $400.

It's a "Special use" permit. We're trying to find our paperwork that would show when that road was put in place. We weren't aware that it had to be renewed every 20 years, hence trying to locate our original paperwork, to see what it says. Congress inacted a law in Feb 2006 that made us liable for the renewal of this permit supposedly. What gets us, is how they determined that it would take 8 to 24 hours to renew our "Formal Application", whatever that means. I'll measure the driveway today and report that here for you. We're getting suggestions from everyone. I've run ads in craiglist and have met folks in the same boat as us, so this isn't over yet! I'm just hoping to meet an industry insider within the forest service who can give us some insider information on this. A person shouldn't be able to slap you with a bill for what they deem, for something they just make up, for services NOT delivered, and you not have a course of action to contest it.

 

[Hoodoo creek]

What is the penalty for not paying it?

They make it clear that the "Formal Application" (which we haven't turned in? Don't know what it even is!) will not be processed. We know that if the forest service ever took away the easement, such as doing a land swap with a timber company. In such an event, we have an alternate access through the edge of a farmers field, but it's about 1/2 mile long and it's been plowed under and is a crop now. We'd have to re-establish it. But I'm not sure if we'd have that access if we failed to pay this. These days, you just don't know the implications of these new laws being made on the sly. We're not sure if we just didn't pay it, are they going to put a lien against the place which we worked tirelessly to pay off in full, or will they put up a barricade? I think to myself, that we'd just tell them to stick it, and continue driving on the road, but assume that being a federal agency, that these guys could make life miserable for ordinary folks such as us.

 

[CliffordK]

I didn't mean anything exact.
1/4 mile. 1/2 mile. 5 miles, etc.
Private? Shared?
Do you maintain the access road?
Does it dump out onto Forest Service Roads, or State/County roads?

There is some info on the Forest Service Website.
USDA Forest Service - Special Uses.
USDA Forest Service - Special Uses乏ecreation Residence.

I have a second cousin in the forest service here in Oregon, but I don't think he deals with office work, fees, and etc.

I don't see any problems with a 24 hour turnaround on an application. I doubt that it went through a full 24 hours of review. it probably spent 23:45 sitting in a pile, and less than 15 minutes of review.

Nonetheless, you should be able to go down to the local forest service office and talk to someone, perhaps even the person who changed the categories.

I really think it is a good idea to own your own access right of way, at least up to the point where it becomes a shared use, multi-party road.

 

[CliffordK]

We're not sure if we just didn't pay it, are they going to put a lien against the place which we worked tirelessly to pay off in full, or will they put up a barricade? I think to myself, that we'd just tell them to stick it, and continue driving on the road, but assume that being a federal agency, that these guys could make life miserable for ordinary folks such as us.

If the forest service chooses to abandon a road, they'll block it with a log, big rocks, and/or a trench. Removing their barricade could land you in court, although it doesn't mean that any legal action couldn't be fought.

Having potential alternative access is good.

 

[Hoodoo creek]

I didn't mean anything exact.
1/4 mile. 1/2 mile. 5 miles, etc.
Private? Shared?
Do you maintain the access road?
Does it dump out onto Forest Service Roads, or State/County roads?

There is some info on the Forest Service Website.
USDA Forest Service - Special Uses.
USDA Forest Service - Special Uses乏ecreation Residence.

I have a second cousin in the forest service here in Oregon, but I don't think he deals with office work, fees, and etc.

I don't see any problems with a 24 hour turnaround on an application. I doubt that it went through a full 24 hours of review. it probably spent 23:45 sitting in a pile, and less than 15 minutes of review.

Nonetheless, you should be able to go down to the local forest service office and talk to someone, perhaps even the person who changed the categories.

I really think it is a good idea to own your own access right of way, at least up to the point where it becomes a shared use, multi-party road.

It's less than 500 feet, empties onto a county road which is dirt, we maintain the road and are the only folks using it. I agree on your assessment of the time it should take to process! There no doubt should be a cost, I just think someones abusing their powers and trying to look good to a supervisor for extrea monies gleaned. We're going in tomorrow, so these people can see the person they're bending over. The property is actually in her name, after she purchased it from my folks in late 1992. We've just been intimate friends for the 20 plus years now, as she's 21 years older than I am. Kinda like a mom, kinda like a spouse.......... It's complicated!

 

[Hoodoo creek]

I didn't mean anything exact.
1/4 mile. 1/2 mile. 5 miles, etc.
Private? Shared?
Do you maintain the access road?
Does it dump out onto Forest Service Roads, or State/County roads?

There is some info on the Forest Service Website.
USDA Forest Service - Special Uses.
USDA Forest Service - Special Uses乏ecreation Residence.

I have a second cousin in the forest service here in Oregon, but I don't think he deals with office work, fees, and etc.

I don't see any problems with a 24 hour turnaround on an application. I doubt that it went through a full 24 hours of review. it probably spent 23:45 sitting in a pile, and less than 15 minutes of review.

Nonetheless, you should be able to go down to the local forest service office and talk to someone, perhaps even the person who changed the categories.

I really think it is a good idea to own your own access right of way, at least up to the point where it becomes a shared use, multi-party road.

CliffordK, those links look useful, thank you!I breezed through them for now because I need to go, but I'll look at them tonight a bit more closely. Thank you all for your input.

 

[BeltfedGoodness]

Send them a check for the old original amount. The "account" will remain open. Let them earn their "review time" and get back to you. Maybe you'll flush out a real human who will have to dial a phone to contact you about it and then you can ask them to show you the law that they are using. Most.../////all government agencies are VERY lazy that can be used against them. It is very sad we have come to a realization it is an us/them type of country already.

+++++I'm no lawyer and do not play one on TV, nor did I stay at a Holiday Inn last night, so all this would probably just stir the pot of turds into more trouble for you++++++ It sure would feel good though to stick it to them for a bit....

 

[newbury]

<snip> We weren't aware that it had to be renewed every 20 years, hence trying to locate our original paperwork, to see what it says.<snip>

Reads like you ignored a rule, either intentionally or unintentionally. It's like my son who forgot to renew his drivers license, the fault was on him.

Hopefully you can find your paperwork and go in and plead ignorance.