Getting Philosophical: The paradox of the one-person business

[Dougster]

Dougster, Ok, you don't like the "gopher exploder", how about getting a 60" 3pt rock picker and de-rocking yards? Or you could get a pesticide applicators license and re-grade and ditch areas to eliminate standing water and apply bug dope. Something most bug dopers can't do.
jb

Oh JB... What on earth am I going to do with you? More attachments and nifty side specialities aren't going to save or sink me... and I've already taken in all the "business hints and tips" that I can possibly handle in the last 14 threads that ended up devoted to my general lack of business sense. I'm trying hard to keep this one on focus.

To recap: I am losing some percentage of readily available "potential-client-on-the-phone" business due to a lack (or excess) of size, weight, speed and/or power range in my one and only piece of dirt moving equipment. On the other hand, Mine is a one-person company and I intend it to remain a one-person company for the foreseeable future. Question: Does it makes any sense for me to expand my "fleet" to two machines with one of the first above listed choices? And, if so, which one? Or should I sit tight, hunker down and simply do my best to survive right now with my one owned dirt-moving machine?

Dougster

 

[Farmwithjunk]

We touched on it earlier, but maybe I should just ask: Are skidsteer backhoe attachments really effective & worthwhile tools? I'm still trying to figure out how they can work at all with no anchor (e.g., like a tractor's FEL) off the back side of the skidsteer to allow for adequate stability.

Dougster

My experience with skid steer mounted hoe's is somewhat limited, but I have used one a few times. Effective? Worthwhile? All depends on what you're trying to accomplish. They make for a manueverable unit. But they are a compromise at best. They're stable to a point. Just don't try to keep up with a full blown excavator. My employer owns a Bobcat mini-excavator. (Not sure of model#) I must say, the first time I used it, I was suitably impressed. I've had the opportunity to use it on a number of occasions. I'd be very tempted to go that route if I was looking to get into the small back hoe business.

 

[Dougster]

My experience with skid steer mounted hoe's is somewhat limited, but I have used one a few times. Effective? Worthwhile? All depends on what you're trying to accomplish. They make for a manueverable unit. But they are a compromise at best. They're stable to a point. Just don't try to keep up with a full blown excavator.

The fact is that I've found several skidsteers for sale within 250 miles with backhoe attachments included that go all the way up to a Bradco 611. Prices on these combo deals have been attractive too... but it just seems odd to have a powerful backhoe like a 611 mounted on a skidsteer that in some cases are under 7,000 lbs. A properly balanced & powered 611 could really help in those cases where my 509 falls just short of being able to do a job... but mounted on a smallish skidsteer? I just don't know how that might work out.

My employer owns a Bobcat mini-excavator. (Not sure of model#) I must say, the first time I used it, I was suitably impressed. I've had the opportunity to use it on a number of occasions. I'd be very tempted to go that route if I was looking to get into the small back hoe business.

For some reason the Bobcat brand mini-excavators have a really terrible reputation. I wish I knew more about how this bad reputation came about... cause prices on used units are awfully darn attractive.

It's funny, but even before I bought my tractor, I was being urged to buy a mini-excavator instead. At the time, I was still employed and a life-changing lay-off, while always possible for someone in my position who had just turned 55, still seemed miles off. I was not thinking business and survival so much as I was thinking about work improving my own property and work on property my GF and I had planned to buy a few towns away. I did a lot of investigating used mini's at that time... but eventually turned my attention back to tractors with backhoes as the more versatile overall solution. Eventually the business concept came into play... and then suddenly a young, new boss and the lay-off hit... after which the "compact tractor & backhoe" business became my sole income. Now I have come full circle... and I am back looking at mini-excavators again (among other machines) as the possible solution to capturing a greater range of jobs to better fill my dance card and become fully self-sustaining.

Dougster

 

[Farmwithjunk]

For some reason the Bobcat brand mini-excavators have a really terrible reputation. I wish I knew more about how this bad reputation came about... cause prices on used units are awfully darn attractive.

Dougster

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I'd bet the bad rep was started by people who've never spent a minutes time in/on a Bobcat mini-ex. We've had one for several years now. We also have a couple Bobcat skidsteers. They get hammered. Everyone and their 2nd cousin get the keys from time to time. The mini-ex gets to go home with a number of our employees at various times too. I've used it a number of times. Long story short, if there was any significant weakness, it would have expired long ago. It's a diggin' little cuss too. This past spring, I dug 700' of 2' wide X 5' deep ditch for a new sewer line to my barn. I was quite impressed. No issues to report. There may be better models from other brands, but the price was right when we bought this one, and like I said, no issues after a few years of torture.

One thing I've found to be true. You can buy almost ANY brand of equipment, run it YOURSELF, and have tremendous luck. Start letting everyone under the sun have the keys and you'll find out real quick what the life expectancy is. NON owners hammer the daylights out of equipment. That said, both of the equipment rental companies we deal with have fleets of Bobcat mini-ex's.

And, as a matter of coincidence, as soon as the sun comes up, I'm out of the office again today to go sit in a Bobcat Mini-ex. Digging ditches for an electrician on a job I somehow landed as "project supervisor". (read; take care of all the things the supt. doesn't want to deal with)

 

[tlbuser]

We touched on it earlier, but maybe I should just ask: Are skidsteer backhoe attachments really effective & worthwhile tools? I'm still trying to figure out how they can work at all with no anchor (e.g., like a tractor's FEL) off the back side of the skidsteer to allow for adequate stability.

Dougster

FWIW, the couple I've tried I didn't like (bobcat 743, JD 260, ASV 60) Stability wasn't as big of an issue (although you can make them hop) as mounting and dismounting the machine to move around. And, changing to/from the hoe is quite a chore too. Depending on which combo, you might not have any more reach, power than you do now, just a tad smaller footprint.

But, I don't like the JD 110 either so.......

 

[Dougster]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that I'd bet the bad rep was started by people who've never spent a minutes time in/on a Bobcat mini-ex. We've had one for several years now. We also have a couple Bobcat skidsteers. They get hammered. Everyone and their 2nd cousin get the keys from time to time. The mini-ex gets to go home with a number of our employees at various times too. I've used it a number of times. Long story short, if there was any significant weakness, it would have expired long ago. It's a diggin' little cuss too. This past spring, I dug 700' of 2' wide X 5' deep ditch for a new sewer line to my barn. I was quite impressed. No issues to report. There may be better models from other brands, but the price was right when we bought this one, and like I said, no issues after a few years of torture.

Well, based on your good experience, I'll give them a fresh look. Like I said: The prices are certainly right. Models I could possibly consider include the 331E, 331G, 334G and 430 ZHS G. These are the most I could trailer with current equipment. All of them are very similar in terms of weight, power and reach. The 430 ZHS G is zero tail swing.

Dougster

 

[Dougster]

FWIW, the couple I've tried I didn't like (bobcat 743, JD 260, ASV 60) Stability wasn't as big of an issue (although you can make them hop) as mounting and dismounting the machine to move around. And, changing to/from the hoe is quite a chore too. Depending on which combo, you might not have any more reach, power than you do now, just a tad smaller footprint.

Mount and dismounting backhoes is never any great fun. I think I have mounted and dismounted the Bradco 509 fifty-three times so far and it still seems to take forever... especially in front of a client on his property and on his clock!!! I have learned not to try to rush. The more I try to rush, the longer it takes.

If a 611 with its greater reach, higher flow and 3,000 lb operating pressure rating can't beat the pants off my 509 with its lower flow and mere 2,500 lb rating, we are in deep trouble here. But regardless, the whole concept of a backhoe mounted on the front of a skidsteer still bothers me. No firm rear support at all... it still doesn't compute how it could ever work very well.

But, I don't like the JD 110 either so.......

Hmmmmm... You never mentioned that before. If there is anything I should know that I don't already know, please spit it out! Other than an L48, which I could never possibly afford new or used... a used JD110 is still the best I could ever personally hope to do in a reasonably trailerable TLB. If my bubble needs to be burst, please do it sooner rather than later!

Dougster

 

[Farmwithjunk]

Well, based on your good experience, I'll give them a fresh look. Like I said: The prices are certainly right. Models I could possibly consider include the 331E, 331G, 334G and 430 ZHS G. These are the most I could trailer with current equipment. All of them are very similar in terms of weight, power and reach. The 430 ZHS G is zero tail swing.

Dougster

Just stepped back in the office after a fun morning on the Bobcat mini-X. It's a model 328. A few years old, but I don't recall exactly when we bought it. I've ran a comparable sized CAT, and one other that I don't recall the brand (blue-ish green) I'd take the Bobcat but wouldn't turn down the CAT either.

 

[Dougster]

Just stepped back in the office after a fun morning on the Bobcat mini-X. It's a model 328. A few years old, but I don't recall exactly when we bought it. I've ran a comparable sized CAT, and one other that I don't recall the brand (blue-ish green) I'd take the Bobcat but wouldn't turn down the CAT either.

Blue-Green... maybe an IHI??? Anyway, the 328 is a popular model one size down (and ~1,000 lbs less) from the machines I'd focused on. There are plenty of good buys out there on used 328's too!

One could argue that the 328 could do even more of that delicate, close-in "next-to-house" and/or "over-septic" work safely... but the 28 HP (vs. 40 HP) and significantly lower digging force would give me concern if I needed to use it on another tough rock or stump removal job.

Dougster

 

[Pete Milley]

My final vote hinges on "IF". If you are determined to buy another piece of equipment and remain within your business parameters, then I vote for the zero tail swing mini-excavator. You already know all the benefits and abilities of this machine so I don't need to sell you on the concept. I believe this will increase your versatility and possibly line up post excavation gradework for your 4110. At this point, an additional TLB would be redundant. I have no idea what kind of price a mini excavator commands back there, but you did ask my opinion.
If we had some ham, we could have ham and eggs...............if we had some eggs.