Glide Steer Evolution BX1860/BX2360/BX25?

[MessickFarmEqu]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I feel that Kubota is the segment leader, but they have to keep improving their product or the others will catch up. )</font>

There is one issue. Kubota is and has been the price leader amoung the major tractor manufacturers. How they do that, and still offer a product that meets our outspecs everyone else I don't know. Some innovation could pull away some market share but that can't be accompanied with a price increase. Case in point - I also sell New Holland which in a few ways is a superior tractor, particulary the sensi-trac 4WD which accomplishes some of what glide steer does. Its a great tractor, however it is a fair amount more expensive and that really hurts their sales. You just can't expect someone to pay a price premium for a tractor that does not have the reputation that Kubota has built.

 

[HomeBrew2]

That kindof puts it all together for me. I wondered why anybody would want auto4wd on a tractor ,ie, going in and out as it saw fit. Makes sence now. Cars do it with the third diff at the transfer case.
I'm quite happy with how tight the BX steers BUT, to get it to turn it's tighest you have to crawl as slow as possible (like hooking up implements) to avoid shoving the front wheels with the rear wheels ... thus increasing the turning radius. Thanks for discussing this, I learned something.
Cheers!

 

[pccoder]

Out of curiosity, what is the uncut diameter of a BX (long frame) with a 54 or 60 inch deck?

 

[HomeBrew2]

Sorry, I'm no help there. I don't use a MMM deck.

 

[AB4D]

[I disagree. I think the turning radius on a BX could be improved. I was just curious if anyone thought Glide Steer might be implemented on something above a GR as such an improvement.]

I'm curious of why you think Glide Steer Technology can improve the turning radius on the BX? I don't see why Kubota would need to put this technology on its larger tractors becuase this technology appears to only fix a "problem" on something that has a solid rear axle.

I believe that the Glide Steer Technology functions like a limited slip differential, whereas, both rear tires are driven while going in a straight line, however when turning, the inside rear tire is allowed to rotate slower than the outside tire. The Glide Steer addresses a "problem" when the rear axle is solid and the rear tires cannot rotate independently. However, the BX's HST allows the rear tires to rotate independently, therefore, IMO, the Glide Steer Technology would not benefit the BX.


Jim

 

[HomeBrew2]

I'm not trying to speak for jbclbc but would like to reply.

I believe having Glide Steer Technology could improve the "effective" turning radius of the BX because it would mitigate the "PLOWING" of the front wheels "at speed".

Nothing will improve the "mathematical" turning radius short of providing more turning of the front wheels OR, making it a skidsteer machine OR, shortening the wheelbase and any or all of the above in combination.

In the strictest of terms, I am unaware of any COMMON "solid rear axle" machines. Sidebar: In daze gone by, drag racers referred to solid rear axles as "spools" ... usually accomplished by welding the spyder gears (maybe that's still what it's called and/or done the same way, I dunno). Some offroad vehicles use a "Detroit Locker" or air [actuated] locker to effect a solid axle. Seems like most tractors now have a mechanical (pedal) means to lock the rear drive axles together. Steering brakes work well too.

As I understand Glide Steer, from the web page, it functions NOTHING like a limited slip differential. "Limited slip" is half-way between a standard, run-of-the-mill, "open" diff and a solid diff.
In short, a standard diff has the ability to know when a vehicle is turning and thus will allow the outer wheel to turn faster than the inner wheel; a limited slip diff not only knows to allow the vehicle to turn but also, to, when needed, transfer some power to whichever wheel has the LEAST traction, thus aiding the other wheel that may become mired in mud, etc. In contrast, a standard diff would give the majority of power to the wheel mired in mud.
A "solid" axle could care less about anything and will provide all available power to each wheel under all circumstances which will result in either scuffing the tire or surface on the outside wheel or, ultimately destroy the diff or break an axle.

So, in conjunction with details in my previous post, Glide Steer should effect a real turning radius about equal to the mathematical turning radius by totally unlocking the rear inside wheel thus allowing the front axle, which has a standard diff, to do it's own thing while allowing the outside rear wheel to assist (so the front does not have to pull the rear along).

Final point, though kindof addressed previously: the BX's hydrostat does not have anything to do with allowing the rear tires to rotate independently. That is accomplished by a standard diff that happens to be hydraulically powered rather than mechanically (as in a car).

Hope that was comprehendable and useful ... I'm into my beer time now and the screen is getting fuzzy /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

Cheers!

 

[Volfandt]

Cool read. I'm not answering any one post, just throwing some thoughts out there....

It's the planatary gears in a rear/hst that transfers drive power to the outside wheel and allows the inside wheel to free spin when turning. An engenius assembly that works all the time in 98% of all self propelled machinery without ever breaking down and requires minimal maintenance.

I may be old faxhioned and/or too set in my ways but I don't see any advantage in AWD or Glide Steer in machinery that does more than mow like the BX or larger. To me it's just something unnecessary that'll jack up the price and cost more to repair. If I need AWD, which isn't very often, I simply manually engage the front wheels. Mowing in 2WD saves fuel, saves wear and tear on the drivetrain and shortens the turning radius.

When I need to mow a very small turning radius, I slow down which helps to shorten the cut and the combination of the BX's power steering and HST makes direction changes nearly effortless.

There is 3 mods I believe that would improve the BX that I see wasn't addressed on the new BX24.
1) The ROPS has 2 shortcomeings IMHO. It is too tall and doesn't fold a full 180 degrees. If it were a mere 2' shorter it would fit through my garage door unfolded. There would still be enough room under it in BH mode.
If it would fold a full 180 degrees you wouldn't have 2.5' of obstruction sticking out the back when you have to mow close in and under young trees where the ROPS has to be folded.

2) The steering wheel is not ergonomically matched to the rest of the operators station. Once you get the seat adj to where your legs & feet are situated to comfortably operate the treadle, you have to lean forward inorder to reach all of the steering wheel. I have gotten used to steering from the bottom of the wheel but I have to lean forward to spin the wheel to turn. Replaceing the std steering wheel with either a tilt wheel or deep dish steering wheel would correct that.
Kubota makes a European market BX that has a deep dish steering wheel but you can't purchase them here in the USA.

3)Turning brakes. The addition of turning brakes would shorten the turning radius dramatically. This technology has been around forever. My 48 TE20 had them. This would give you the functionality of Glide Steer somewhat.

Course an upgrade to the B series would rectify these 3 issues I have with my BX23 and perhaps thats what Kubota had in mind when R&D'ing the various models. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

You make some interesting points. I should mention that the glide steer turns a tighter circle than any 2WD tractor I have ever used. Its really remarkable. The front wheels turn to a full 70 degrees, its almost humorous. I don't think a traditional 2WD could do that becaues you still have the problem of the inside wheel scuffing which you turn at that kind of angle. Having the front wheel assit also pulls the tractor though the turn instead of relying on the backend to push it through. Its really somthing you have to drive to experience. I can't see how a traditional 4 wheeled machine could possibly turn any shorter.

Now a 2WD machine that drove just the front tires maybe interesting. That could possibly accomplish somthing simular.

 

[daTeacha]

Steiner makes or made a 3 wheeler mower with the front two driving and the rear single steering. The mower is front mounted, so you can do all kinds of neat tricks with it. Not quite a ZTR, but close.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

Yea, I have one sitting about 20 yards from me. Its a design that most often seen on a mower from Walker.