Global Warming?

[Redneck in training]

I agree, cloud cover usually = warmth.

I brought in the coal plants for comparison, regardless how each system creates and disturbs the environment it's not possible to extract or convert energy without heat. Entropy balances the event.

Carnot Cycles anyone?

Rob

There is a 2GW nuclear power plant near the town where I used to live. The river will not freeze over about 60 miles downstream of the plant. There is perpetual fog in the valley in the winter time.

Cities are also few deg warmer than surrounding area.

Wind turbines do not add energy to the surrounding environment (in fact they remove energy) but might alter the ground temperature by mixing layers of air.

The latest large wind turbines placed offshore can produce power at about the same cost as conventional power plants. The problem is variability of the supply so energy storage is the issue. Geographical distribution and interconnection of the wind power sources might even the supply.

 

[Egon]

You gotta try a Specialized Cycle!:thumbsup:

 

[crash325]

This is good for all the younger adults of today and current teenagers to read.

Just to let folks know that we senior citizens are not the ones who have
contaminated and are currently contaminating the planet.

We did not have, but did not need "The Green Thing".

In the line at the store, the cashier told an older woman that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The woman apologized to him and explained, "We didn't have the green thing back in my day."

The clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment."

He was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day. We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

But she was right. We didn't have the green thing in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power really did dry the clothes. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. But that old lady is right; we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana.

In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us.

When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used a wadded up old newspaper to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.

Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

But she's right; we didn't have the green thing back then.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water.

We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

But we didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service.

We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?

 

[patrick_g]

Global warming: New research blames economic growth

Looks like the USA is doing its part to fight global warming via the recession.



Use of Public and Private Dollars for Scaling Up Clean Energy Needs a Reality Check, Say Scholars

http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...ciencedaily/top_news+(ScienceDaily:+Top+News)

 

[Rob-D]

This is good for all the younger adults of today and current teenagers to read.

Just to let folks know that we senior citizens are not the ones who have
contaminated and are currently contaminating the planet.

We did not have, but did not need "The Green Thing".

In the line at the store, the cashier told an older woman that she should bring her own grocery bags because plastic bags weren't good for the environment.

The woman apologized to him and explained, "We didn't have the green thing back in my day."

The clerk responded, "That's our problem today. Your generation did not care enough to save our environment."

He was right -- our generation didn't have the green thing in its day.

Back then, we returned milk bottles, soda bottles and beer bottles to the store. The store sent them back to the plant to be washed and sterilized and refilled, so it could use the same bottles over and over. So they really were recycled.

But we didn't have the green thing back in our day. We walked up stairs, because we didn't have an escalator in every store and office building. We walked to the grocery store and didn't climb into a 300-horsepower machine every time we had to go two blocks.

But she was right. We didn't have the green thing in our day.

Back then, we washed the baby's diapers because we didn't have the throw-away kind. We dried clothes on a line, not in an energy gobbling machine burning up 220 volts -- wind and solar power really did dry the clothes. Kids got hand-me-down clothes from their brothers or sisters, not always brand-new clothing. But that old lady is right; we didn't have the green thing back in our day.

Back then, we had one TV, or radio, in the house -- not a TV in every room. And the TV had a small screen the size of a handkerchief (remember them?), not a screen the size of the state of Montana.

In the kitchen, we blended and stirred by hand because we didn't have electric machines to do everything for us.

When we packaged a fragile item to send in the mail, we used a wadded up old newspaper to cushion it, not Styrofoam or plastic bubble wrap.

Back then, we didn't fire up an engine and burn gasoline just to cut the lawn. We used a push mower that ran on human power. We exercised by working so we didn't need to go to a health club to run on treadmills that operate on electricity.

But she's right; we didn't have the green thing back then.

We drank from a fountain when we were thirsty instead of using a cup or a plastic bottle every time we had a drink of water.

We refilled writing pens with ink instead of buying a new pen, and we replaced the razor blades in a razor instead of throwing away the whole razor just because the blade got dull.

But we didn't have the green thing back then.

Back then, people took the streetcar or a bus and kids rode their bikes to school or walked instead of turning their moms into a 24-hour taxi service.

We had one electrical outlet in a room, not an entire bank of sockets to power a dozen appliances. And we didn't need a computerized gadget to receive a signal beamed from satellites 2,000 miles out in space in order to find the nearest pizza joint.

But isn't it sad the current generation laments how wasteful we old folks were just because we didn't have the green thing back then?

What you are talking about has nothing to do with "green". It's called technological progress.
Technological progress does not care about 'green' or not "green". Marketing promotes and sells products, people buy products. Did your generation say no, "that's not environmentally friendly!" Nope!

And since we're talking about energy ,that one room TV used vacuum tubes. Vacuum tubes use hundreds to thousands of times more electricity than LSI (large scale integration) so three or four TV's today use less energy than they did.

Here's the question: What are you using today? An LCD TV or the old one room tube TV in your parent's house with a CRT? Incandescent lights that use several times more energy or CFL's and LED's that don't? A car with pollution controls or an old car that had nothing more on it than an EGR valve running on leaded gas?

I think your generation made a mess of the planet, they had great ideas in the 60's, but turned into a generation that put the buck first. All the hippies became corporate CEO's. The planet's a mess and I blame your generation for loosing its way.

So again, what are you using today, your car from 1965? Your TV from the same period? When you get a package in the mail does it have peanuts in it? Got air conditioning? A freezer? Or do you truck out to the outhouse and root cellar? Still push a lawn mower or is yours electric? How about that tractor you own? Give up the sickle bar did you? If we have technology we use technology. If we have power we use power, oil has spoiled us.... all of us!

And by the way if you think I'm being hard on your generation you should know it's my generation too, I'm in my late 60's.

Rob

 

[Rob-D]

Global warming: New research blames economic growth

Looks like the USA is doing its part to fight global warming via the recession.



Use of Public and Private Dollars for Scaling Up Clean Energy Needs a Reality Check, Say Scholars

Use of public and private dollars for scaling up clean energy needs a reality check, say scholars

Of course, if people drive less than less pollution is created, make fewer products use less energy, make less pollution.


From your second link:

"It can be fixed through a new approach that forces these technologies to become more economically efficient, he writes in the article, "Tough Love for Renewable Energy."


"It is time to push harder for renewable power, but to push in a smarter way," Ball writes.

I agree.

Pulling the plug on renewables because we think they will affect the economy is a ploy and 'red herring'. It's promulgated by the false belief that monetary ends equate to happiness. If you believe that you have never had real money and you haven't had real happiness, and probably don't know how to attain either.

So we get this corporate media hype about the 'greenies' wanting to run industry into the ground to crash the US. We get Massey Energy telling people that they are making jobs and feeding people when the last thing they care about is anyone, ask Don Blankenship and his 190 million bucks.

Do we need to improve and reduce the cost of renewables? Sure, that's called technology and renewables are a growing field that will continue to improve.

What's the alternative? Keep letting coal plants dump acid rain on us until we're all sick? How high does the rising cancer rate in this world have to go until we realize that we have to address the issue. We can stick our heads in the sand or we can do something constructive. Renewables will enable us to live cleaner longer lives and leave a better planet to future generations. Will we have to address industry? Sure but we have no choice.

Rob

 

[crash325]

your as phony as a $3 bill with Clinton's picture on it and as big a liar as Obama. Get off your high horse and quit looking down your nose at normal people. Those that do actually recycle and try live without making excess pollution.

What you are talking about has nothing to do with "green". It's called technological progress.
Technological progress does not care about 'green' or not "green". Marketing promotes and sells products, people buy products. Did your generation say no, "that's not environmentally friendly!" Nope!

And since we're talking about energy ,that one room TV used vacuum tubes. Vacuum tubes use hundreds to thousands of times more electricity than LSI (large scale integration) so three or four TV's today use less energy than they did.

Here's the question: What are you using today? An LCD TV or the old one room tube TV in your parent's house with a CRT? Incandescent lights that use several times more energy or CFL's and LED's that don't? A car with pollution controls or an old car that had nothing more on it than an EGR valve running on leaded gas?

I think your generation made a mess of the planet, they had great ideas in the 60's, but turned into a generation that put the buck first. All the hippies became corporate CEO's. The planet's a mess and I blame your generation for loosing its way.

So again, what are you using today, your car from 1965? Your TV from the same period? When you get a package in the mail does it have peanuts in it? Got air conditioning? A freezer? Or do you truck out to the outhouse and root cellar? Still push a lawn mower or is yours electric? How about that tractor you own? Give up the sickle bar did you? If we have technology we use technology. If we have power we use power, oil has spoiled us.... all of us!

And by the way if you think I'm being hard on your generation you should know it's my generation too, I'm in my late 60's.

Rob

Stupidity - We get cfl bulbs and save energy - All you do is move pollution to China. And import mercury.

Lets all stock up on LED bulbs at only $50 each - Yes the Gov just gave a co. $100,000 to develop and affordable LED bulb - By the way it will be made in China.

Lets all run out and get a new TV (made in China) and save the planet. My TV's don't have tubes they are not that old and are power by transistors.

"We are All Sick from Coal Plant Pollution". I am not sick, have only been to see a doctor 1 time in the last 6 years. If you are sick, Must be because of Coal Power plants.

I got a kick out of your BS about how much less you polluted with driving more than I do in your Subie. How much did you hall in that skate board??? Rarely do I go to town that I don't make it a multi purpose trip. how much cement have you hauled. How many pallets of bricks (used) have you hauled. How many times have you come home with 400 to 500 feet of water pipe??? Or 200 feet of leach line, plus fitting & glue. How do you haul enough T-111 siding to go all the way around a mobile home?? Enough 1/2" cement board to replace the plastic skirting around a mobile home. How do you take 1 person to the airport, another to buy groceries and do your own shopping????

You had nothing to say when I told about making all me & my family's out building out of used material.

You didn't really have anything to say about the "Eagle" kills. Just some stupidity about you killing a bird almost every month. Some one said I didn't live in the right area. Strange. coming back from town almost every power pole had it's own Hawk on it. Ravens (called Crows) feed on the highway all the time.

Your big claim that while I'm bringing in Wood all you have to do if flip a switch. I'll bet you spend more time with all your Chinese junk, keeping it all working than I do with my wood.

I don't have a mower of any kind. Don't was water on lawns and such. If needed once or twice a year I use a weed whacker, yep gas powered.

New Found Greenies Like yourself are phony and can not really look at reality.

Stay in your little dream world - Just TRY to keep your mouth shut when it comes to bad mouthing someone like myself.

 

[Rob-D]

your as phony as a $3 bill with Clinton's picture on it and as big a liar as Obama. Get off your high horse and quit looking down your nose at normal people. Those that do actually recycle and try live without making excess pollution.



Stupidity - We get cfl bulbs and save energy - All you do is move pollution to China. And import mercury.

Lets all stock up on LED bulbs at only $50 each - Yes the Gov just gave a co. $100,000 to develop and affordable LED bulb - By the way it will be made in China.

Lets all run out and get a new TV (made in China) and save the planet. My TV's don't have tubes they are not that old and are power by transistors.

"We are All Sick from Coal Plant Pollution". I am not sick, have only been to see a doctor 1 time in the last 6 years. If you are sick, Must be because of Coal Power plants.

I got a kick out of your BS about how much less you polluted with driving more than I do in your Subie. How much did you hall in that skate board??? Rarely do I go to town that I don't make it a multi purpose trip. how much cement have you hauled. How many pallets of bricks (used) have you hauled. How many times have you come home with 400 to 500 feet of water pipe??? Or 200 feet of leach line, plus fitting & glue. How do you haul enough T-111 siding to go all the way around a mobile home?? Enough 1/2" cement board to replace the plastic skirting around a mobile home. How do you take 1 person to the airport, another to buy groceries and do your own shopping????

You had nothing to say when I told about making all me & my family's out building out of used material.

You didn't really have anything to say about the "Eagle" kills. Just some stupidity about you killing a bird almost every month. Some one said I didn't live in the right area. Strange. coming back from town almost every power pole had it's own Hawk on it. Ravens (called Crows) feed on the highway all the time.

Your big claim that while I'm bringing in Wood all you have to do if flip a switch. I'll bet you spend more time with all your Chinese junk, keeping it all working than I do with my wood.

I don't have a mower of any kind. Don't was water on lawns and such. If needed once or twice a year I use a weed whacker, yep gas powered.

New Found Greenies Like yourself are phony and can not really look at reality.

Stay in your little dream world - Just TRY to keep your mouth shut when it comes to bad mouthing someone like myself.

My system is made in the USA.

You missed this but I have a trailer that I use with my Subie which pulls 2700 lbs. My Subie is made in Indiana and Subaru is one of the lowest auto polluters in the world and one of the safest cars on the road.

Your mobile home is not made from recycled materials.

LED's don't cost $50.00 each, you can get them for much less as the technology improves further.

We compared how much gas each of uses in a year, you use more, would you like me to got through the math again?

You're not doesn't mean other people aren't:

Chronic Illness Linked To Coal-mining Pollution, Study Shows

"According to Hendryx, as coal production increases, so does the incidence of chronic illness. Coal-processing chemicals, equipment powered by diesel engines, explosives, toxic impurities in coals, and even dust from uncovered coal trucks can cause environmental pollution that could have a negative affect on public health."

Your big claim that while I'm bringing in Wood all you have to do if flip a switch. I'll bet you spend more time with all your Chinese junk, keeping it all working than I do with my wood.

It's not made in China but I'll take that bet. How much would you like to wager?

"your as phony as a $3 bill with Clinton's picture on it and as big a liar as Obama."

Enjoy the soliloquy if you must but it doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing.

Just TRY to keep your mouth shut when it comes to bad mouthing someone like myself.

I didn't bad mouth you, I disagreed with you. You're the one who's angry and giving orders, not me. Try to calm down, you'll blow a gasket.
Rob

 

[Short Game]

Some of us hippies are still hippies.

 

[Rob-D]

Some of us hippies are still hippies.

That makes two of us!

 

[Rob-D]

Crash and HS,
You can tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, or even tell me I couldn't find light at the end of a tunnel, you can criticize a popular personality like Al Gore BUT you can not call me insulting names like you both have done.

If you do that all you have done is point a finger at your own in ability to defend your position with logic and reason. When anyone calls names it only establishes intellectual bankruptcy on their part.

When you tell someone to "shut their mouth" you are only admitting your own lack of answers. Anger only solidifies a total failure or logic.

Maybe we could return to civility? It's been a good discussion so far until you both started this.

I see HS removed his insulting post.. good, let's return to a civil discussion.

Thank you,
Rob

 

[Cat_Driver]

When will you GULLIBLE warming nuts realize who started this GULLIBLE WARMING , and who is making money from it.

Smartest Guy in the Room | Washington Free Beacon

John Kerry痴 net worth as listed on his 2011 financial disclosure form is at least $193 million and likely much higher, making him the wealthiest member of the Senate. He is also a prolific investor, maintaining an array of stocks and other holdings through a mix of family trusts, marital trusts, and commingled fund accounts with his wife, Big Ketchup baroness Teresa Heinz.

The five-term Senator has a well-documented history of investing in companies that would benefit from policies he supports, as well as making conveniently timed and highly profitable trades coinciding with the passage of major legislation and, in some cases, the dissemination of privileged information.

For years, Kerry has invested millions in a number of green energy companies that have benefitted from the president痴 efforts to aggressively subsidize the industry with taxpayer dollars.

 

[Combustix]

It is MHO that global warming is caused by all the hot air created from threads on global warming. Just a theory I got but it does seem to be working:2cents:

 

[Rob-D]

It is MHO that global warming is caused by all the hot air created from threads on global warming. Just a theory I got but it does seem to be working:2cents:

You realize that if your theory is correct you are contributing to global warming....

 

[Rob-D]

When will you GULLIBLE warming nuts realize who started this GULLIBLE WARMING , and who is making money from it.

Smartest Guy in the Room | Washington Free Beacon

John Kerryç—´ net worth as listed on his 2011 financial disclosure form is at least $193 million and likely much higher, making him the wealthiest member of the Senate. He is also a prolific investor, maintaining an array of stocks and other holdings through a mix of family trusts, marital trusts, and commingled fund accounts with his wife, Big Ketchup baroness Teresa Heinz.

The five-term Senator has a well-documented history of investing in companies that would benefit from policies he supports, as well as making conveniently timed and highly profitable trades coinciding with the passage of major legislation and, in some cases, the dissemination of privileged information.

For years, Kerry has invested millions in a number of green energy companies that have benefitted from the presidentç—´ efforts to aggressively subsidize the industry with taxpayer dollars.

Halliburton got no bid contracts in Iraq, bilked the US, got caught, bilked the US, got caught, etc.

The Raw Story | Cheney's Halliburton stock options rose 3,281% last year, senator finds

"Halliburton has already raked in more than $20 billion from the Bush-Cheney Administration for work in Iraq, and they were awarded some of the first Katrina contracts," Lautenberg said in a statement. "It is unseemly for the Vice President to continue to benefit from this company at the same time his Administration funnels billions of dollars to it. The Vice President should sever his financial ties to Halliburton once and for all.

Cheney continues to hold 433,333 Halliburton stock options. The company has been criticized by auditors for its handling of a no-bid contact in Iraq. Auditors found the firm marked up meal prices for troops and inflated gas prices in a deal with a Kuwaiti supplier. The company built the American prison at Guantanamo Bay."

Oil and the Bush Administration

Last year, Vice President Dick Cheney hosted a series of meetings with a group of energy industry representatives and lobbyists. From these meetings, the Bush administration unveiled a controversial National Energy Plan, which consisted chiefly of $33 billion in public subsidies and tax cuts for the oil, coal, and nuclear power industries, as well as provisions to open up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge for industrial oil drilling.
For months, Vice President Cheney refused to release the names of participants, citing presidential privilege to conduct consultations in private. However, Congress's non-partisan investigative and oversight arm, the General Accounting Office (GAO), filed an unprecedented lawsuit to obtain the names of the industrialists who met with the Bush Administration to shape his National Energy Plan. Environmentalists filed suit as well. The names of the industry experts are finally, if slowly, being released, revealing that the administration had given environmental groups only three days to provide input in writing, while meeting in person with the energy lobby time after time.
One participant was grudgingly revealed by Cheney early on: Former Enron CEO and George W Bush's most generous campaign contributor, Kenneth Lay Cheney admitted that he and/or his staff met at least six times with Lay on energy policy issues. Congressmember Henry Waxman (D-CA) subsequently identified 17 different provisions of the Bush National Energy Plan bill that would have benefited Enron. At least one Executive Order on energy policy was virtually identical to draft proposals submitted by the American Petroleum Institute.

Rob

 

[houstonscott]

I like big oil. They heat my home, make my tractor and cars and trucks run, keep my home cool, my water hot. They provide all the chemicals that make all other industries viable. What I don't like is someone telling me how great solar and wind are, and demand they be supported, they provide nothing! When I go to the gas station tonight at 2am it's not wind and solar who are there with a station to fill my tank and make my life better, it's oil, big oil. I miss having a president who understands oil, the country, the world runs on oil, those who are against oil are against our way of life. I don't like having a President who is always the dumbest the guy in the room. Halliburton is a national asset. Those companies are America and Americans, when you bash big oil and halliburton you are bashing American's. These companies making money is good, if the VP has stock options that's fine with me. What scares me is when the President gives tax payers money to a solar company, who turns around and donates it to the same presidents campaign. That's criminal.

HS

 

[SPYDERLK]

your as phony as a $3 bill with Clinton's picture on it and as big a liar as Obama. Get off your high horse and quit looking down your nose at normal people. Those that do actually recycle and try live without making excess pollution.



Stupidity - We get cfl bulbs and save energy - All you do is move pollution to China. And import mercury.

Lets all stock up on LED bulbs at only $50 each - Yes the Gov just gave a co. $100,000 to develop and affordable LED bulb - By the way it will be made in China.

Lets all run out and get a new TV (made in China) and save the planet. My TV's don't have tubes they are not that old and are power by transistors.

"We are All Sick from Coal Plant Pollution". I am not sick, have only been to see a doctor 1 time in the last 6 years. If you are sick, Must be because of Coal Power plants.

I got a kick out of your BS about how much less you polluted with driving more than I do in your Subie. How much did you hall in that skate board??? Rarely do I go to town that I don't make it a multi purpose trip. how much cement have you hauled. How many pallets of bricks (used) have you hauled. How many times have you come home with 400 to 500 feet of water pipe??? Or 200 feet of leach line, plus fitting & glue. How do you haul enough T-111 siding to go all the way around a mobile home?? Enough 1/2" cement board to replace the plastic skirting around a mobile home. How do you take 1 person to the airport, another to buy groceries and do your own shopping????

You had nothing to say when I told about making all me & my family's out building out of used material.

You didn't really have anything to say about the "Eagle" kills. Just some stupidity about you killing a bird almost every month. Some one said I didn't live in the right area. Strange. coming back from town almost every power pole had it's own Hawk on it. Ravens (called Crows) feed on the highway all the time.

Your big claim that while I'm bringing in Wood all you have to do if flip a switch. I'll bet you spend more time with all your Chinese junk, keeping it all working than I do with my wood.

I don't have a mower of any kind. Don't was water on lawns and such. If needed once or twice a year I use a weed whacker, yep gas powered.

New Found Greenies Like yourself are phony and can not really look at reality.

Stay in your little dream world - Just TRY to keep your mouth shut when it comes to bad mouthing someone like myself.

I like big oil. They heat my home, make my tractor and cars and trucks run, keep my home cool, my water hot. They provide all the chemicals that make all other industries viable. What I don't like is someone telling me how great solar and wind are, and demand they be supported, they provide nothing! When I go to the gas station tonight at 2am it's not wind and solar who are there with a station to fill my tank and make my life better, it's oil, big oil. I miss having a president who understands oil, the country, the world runs on oil, those who are against oil are against our way of life. I don't like having a President who is always the dumbest the guy in the room. Halliburton is a national asset. Those companies are America and Americans, when you bash big oil and halliburton you are bashing American's. These companies making money is good, if the VP has stock options that's fine with me. What scares me is when the President gives tax payers money to a solar company, who turns around and donates it to the same presidents campaign. That's criminal.

HS

My system is made in the USA.

You missed this but I have a trailer that I use with my Subie which pulls 2700 lbs. My Subie is made in Indiana and Subaru is one of the lowest auto polluters in the world and one of the safest cars on the road.

Your mobile home is not made from recycled materials.

LED's don't cost $50.00 each, you can get them for much less as the technology improves further.

We compared how much gas each of uses in a year, you use more, would you like me to got through the math again?

You're not doesn't mean other people aren't:

Chronic Illness Linked To Coal-mining Pollution, Study Shows

"According to Hendryx, as coal production increases, so does the incidence of chronic illness. Coal-processing chemicals, equipment powered by diesel engines, explosives, toxic impurities in coals, and even dust from uncovered coal trucks can cause environmental pollution that could have a negative affect on public health."



It's not made in China but I'll take that bet. How much would you like to wager?



Enjoy the soliloquy if you must but it doesn't have anything to do with what we are discussing.



I didn't bad mouth you, I disagreed with you. You're the one who's angry and giving orders, not me. Try to calm down, you'll blow a gasket.
Rob

Crash and HS,
You can tell me I don't know what I'm talking about, or even tell me I couldn't find light at the end of a tunnel, you can criticize a popular personality like Al Gore BUT you can not call me insulting names like you both have done.

If you do that all you have done is point a finger at your own in ability to defend your position with logic and reason. When anyone calls names it only establishes intellectual bankruptcy on their part.

When you tell someone to "shut their mouth" you are only admitting your own lack of answers. Anger only solidifies a total failure or logic.

Maybe we could return to civility? It's been a good discussion so far until you both started this.

I see HS removed his insulting post.. good, let's return to a civil discussion.

Thank you,
Rob

Good info and points Rob. Youre wasting your time.
larry

 

[Rob-D]

I like big oil. They heat my home, make my tractor and cars and trucks run, keep my home cool, my water hot. They provide all the chemicals that make all other industries viable. What I don't like is someone telling me how great solar and wind are, and demand they be supported, they provide nothing! When I go to the gas station tonight at 2am it's not wind and solar who are there with a station to fill my tank and make my life better, it's oil, big oil. I miss having a president who understands oil, the country, the world runs on oil, those who are against oil are against our way of life. I don't like having a President who is always the dumbest the guy in the room. Halliburton is a national asset. Those companies are America and Americans, when you bash big oil and halliburton you are bashing American's. These companies making money is good, if the VP has stock options that's fine with me. What scares me is when the President gives tax payers money to a solar company, who turns around and donates it to the same presidents campaign. That's criminal.

HS

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then."

Thomas Jefferson


"What scares me is when the President gives tax payers money to a solar company, who turns around and donates it to the same presidents campaign."

HS

Gee, I wonder how Halliburton ever got that no bid contract in Iraq?

Halliburton Company - Money,Politics,Campaign Contributions,Halliburton Company


Halliburton Company - Political Campaign Contributions
(1999 to Present)


CHENEY, DICK
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 2/11/2000 PETE SESSIONS FOR CONGRESS 2002/
Republican
CHENEY, DICK
DALLAS, TX 75201 2,500 1/22/1999 BROWNBUILDERS POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE OF BROWN & ROOT, INC EMPLOYEES
CHENEY, DICK
DALLAS, TX 75201 2,500 1/26/1999 HAL ENERGY SERVICES INC POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE
CHENEY, DICK
DALLAS, TX 75201 2,500 2/25/2000 BROWNBUILDERS POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE OF BROWN & ROOT, INC EMPLOYEES
CHENEY, DICK
DALLAS, TX 75201 2,500 2/25/2000 HAL ENERGY SERVICES INC POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 3/6/1999 FRIENDS FOR SLADE GORTON/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 4/21/1999 ASHCROFT 2000/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 5/17/1999 FRIENDS OF GEORGE ALLEN/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 5/25/1999 TRENT LOTT FOR MISSISSIPPI/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 10/29/1999 ABRAHAM SENATE 2000/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 12/14/1999 FRIENDS OF GIULIANI EXPLORATORY COMMITTEE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 services 1,000 12/21/1999 ALASKANS FOR DON YOUNG/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 -1,000 3/14/2000 KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON FOR SENATE COMMITTEE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 2/16/1999 WYOMING REPUBLICAN STATE COMMITTEE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 5/7/1999 CUBIN FOR CONGRESS INC/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 5/29/1999 FRIENDS OF CRAIG THOMAS/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 7/12/1999 WYOMING REPUBLICAN STATE COMMITTEE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 2/29/2000 JON KYL FOR U S SENATE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 3/14/2000 KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON FOR SENATE COMMITTEE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 500 2/26/1999 KAY GRANGER CAMPAIGN FUND/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 500 5/6/1999 BUSINESS INDUSTRY POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE/
Unknown
CHENEY, RICHARD B HON
DALLAS, TX 75200 1,000 10/7/1999 HENRY J. HYDE FOR CONGRESS COMMITTEE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B MR
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 2/21/2000 KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON FOR SENATE COMMITTEE/
Republican

 

[houstonscott]

"The spirit of resistance to government is so valuable on certain occasions, that I wish it to be always kept alive. It will often be exercised when wrong, but better so than not to be exercised at all. I like a little rebellion now and then."

Thomas Jefferson


"What scares me is when the President gives tax payers money to a solar company, who turns around and donates it to the same presidents campaign."

HS

Gee, I wonder how Halliburton ever got that no bid contract in Iraq?

Halliburton Company - Money,Politics,Campaign Contributions,Halliburton Company


Halliburton Company - Political Campaign Contributions
(1999 to Present)


CHENEY, DICK
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 2/11/2000 PETE SESSIONS FOR CONGRESS 2002/
Republican
CHENEY, DICK
DALLAS, TX 75201 2,500 1/22/1999 BROWNBUILDERS POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE OF BROWN & ROOT, INC EMPLOYEES
CHENEY, DICK
DALLAS, TX 75201 2,500 1/26/1999 HAL ENERGY SERVICES INC POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE
CHENEY, DICK
DALLAS, TX 75201 2,500 2/25/2000 BROWNBUILDERS POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE OF BROWN & ROOT, INC EMPLOYEES
CHENEY, DICK
DALLAS, TX 75201 2,500 2/25/2000 HAL ENERGY SERVICES INC POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 3/6/1999 FRIENDS FOR SLADE GORTON/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 4/21/1999 ASHCROFT 2000/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 5/17/1999 FRIENDS OF GEORGE ALLEN/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 5/25/1999 TRENT LOTT FOR MISSISSIPPI/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 10/29/1999 ABRAHAM SENATE 2000/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 12/14/1999 FRIENDS OF GIULIANI EXPLORATORY COMMITTEE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD
DALLAS, TX 75201 services 1,000 12/21/1999 ALASKANS FOR DON YOUNG/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 -1,000 3/14/2000 KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON FOR SENATE COMMITTEE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 2/16/1999 WYOMING REPUBLICAN STATE COMMITTEE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 5/7/1999 CUBIN FOR CONGRESS INC/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 5/29/1999 FRIENDS OF CRAIG THOMAS/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 7/12/1999 WYOMING REPUBLICAN STATE COMMITTEE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 2/29/2000 JON KYL FOR U S SENATE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 3/14/2000 KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON FOR SENATE COMMITTEE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 500 2/26/1999 KAY GRANGER CAMPAIGN FUND/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B
DALLAS, TX 75201 500 5/6/1999 BUSINESS INDUSTRY POLITICAL ACTION COMMITTEE/
Unknown
CHENEY, RICHARD B HON
DALLAS, TX 75200 1,000 10/7/1999 HENRY J. HYDE FOR CONGRESS COMMITTEE/
Republican
CHENEY, RICHARD B MR
DALLAS, TX 75201 1,000 2/21/2000 KAY BAILEY HUTCHISON FOR SENATE COMMITTEE/
Republican

Hey, those are the same names on my list. Not a socialist American hater on the list. LOL.

HS

 

[Rob-D]

"If this were a dictatorship it would be a heck of a lot easier... as long as I'm the dictator. Hehehe. "
― George W. Bush


"You see these dictators on their pedestals, surrounded by the bayonets of their soldiers and the truncheons of their police ... yet in their hearts there is unspoken fear. They are afraid of words and thoughts: words spoken abroad, thoughts stirring at home -- all the more powerful because forbidden -- terrify them. A little mouse of thought appears in the room, and even the mightiest potentates are thrown into panic."

― Winston S. Churchill, Blood, Sweat and Tears