"There are none so hopelessly enslaved that those who falsely believe they are free."
Goethe
Got kids? Ever get a break on your income tax for those kids?
Congratulations, you're a socialist!
Global Warming?
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"There are none so hopelessly enslaved that those who falsely believe they are free."
Goethe
Got kids? Ever get a break on your income tax for those kids?
Congratulations, you're a socialist!
rsewill
Veteran Member
houstonscott said:
Big Oil is shipping your money to the Middle East every time you fill your tractor, cars and trucks and when you heat your home causing instability in the world and which has resulted in the deaths of thousands of American troops in that part of the world to support the likes of Haliburton, a corporation headquartered and lead from Dubai. The chemicals spewed into the air, ground and water is poisoning the earth. When you go to that station at 2AM, think about how much more convenient it would have been if you had only to unplug your retractable cord from your vehicle in your garage and been on your way.
I, too, am glad we no longer have a president who is the dumbest guy in the room and that we now have one looking to the future with an actual renewable domestic energy strategy encompassing oil, gas, nuclear and renewables. An 'all of the above' strategy that means domestic energy has the possibility of being all we need, no reliance on Middle East despots.
Too bad the Supreme Court decided we didn't need to know about what Vice President Cheney conspired with Big Oil in their White House gathering once the two Texas oil men became the leaders of our government. That's criminal as far as I'm concerned.
rsewill
Veteran Member
Rob-D said:
I have to disagree with Rob on this one. Socialism is when the fruits of production are distributed equally to all citizens. Getting a break on your taxes means we all participate in providing that tax break. The only place in this country where socialism is being practiced is in Alaska where oil companies provide for the Permanent Fund that distributes payments equally to all its citizens. The disbursements from this fund were dramatically increased by the most socialist governor in recent American history, half-Governor Sarah Palin, passed by one of the most socialist legislatures, firmly in the control of conservative Republicans.
Too many think it is socialism when the government bails out industries like President Bush did with the big banks, Wall Street, car makers and big insurance. That's just a giveaway to cronies and powerbrokers.
This is called "bait and switch'. HS can't support his position on the environment. He got embarrassed for name calling so now he's trying to go in the back door and say everyone who thinks we should support renewables is a socialist who hates America.
Soooo... back the renewables and the environment.
Tell us HS how do you know so much about PV and wind when you don't have your house powered by either or ever installed a system?
Don't confuse me with facts my mind is made up.
Rob
This is really getting funny, we have HS and Crash basically denying technological advancements.
Had either of you been around at the turn of the last century you would have been arguing against for the telegraph over the telephone.
Better yet Crash gets angry. What?? Do you think by getting angry and name calling that it is going to make anyone think you're right? Maybe that works in your house but in my house when someone starts a ranting tirade we all laugh.
You guys are trying to tell us that a model 'T' is a better car than a modern Ford. It's called technology, it's why you're typing on a computer and not a typewriter.
Someone shake these guys and see if they're breathing!
Rob
Had either of you been around at the turn of the last century you would have been arguing against for the telegraph over the telephone.
Better yet Crash gets angry. What?? Do you think by getting angry and name calling that it is going to make anyone think you're right? Maybe that works in your house but in my house when someone starts a ranting tirade we all laugh.
You guys are trying to tell us that a model 'T' is a better car than a modern Ford. It's called technology, it's why you're typing on a computer and not a typewriter.
Someone shake these guys and see if they're breathing!
Rob
That's true, the fewer kids you have the more you're penalized! Ocoto-moms unite!
mostly_gas
Super Member
Rob you have yet to prove your position with facts.
That leads me to question how well you know science. You have ignored far more questions than you have answered. Unless you are holding out information that the rest of us have not discovered yet, I am unimpressed.
BTW since the status quo was climate was working as it always has it is up to you to prove your side. I do know enough about science to know that.
crash325
Elite Member
Is it your impression that he is trying to prove man contributed climate change
Who knows what Rob D & Rsewell are saying or trying to prove other than they are so misinformed, or just out & out liars. nothing they say can be believed.
Sound like 2 commies and USA haters - Their Hero is absolutely the worst Pres. in history. Hands down the looser of the century.
mostly_gas
Super Member
Between non-answered questions and subject changes it is difficult to have certainty.Is it your impression that he is trying to prove man contributed climate change
He does advocate US reducing carbon emissions to leave "a better planet" but that project lacks so much definition it more resembles a joke than a serious proposition.
Redneck in training
Elite Member
That is not socialism. Socialism doctrine said that the rewards will be distributed based on persons contribution not equally. It stipulated all people are equal though. In theory it was great promise. The fault of socialism was concentration of power in hands of few "the most deserving" (sarcasm). We used to say that those most deserving were "more equal" than the rest of us. The result was that the top "most equal" people stole billions staffing their Swiss accounts and the rest of the people got just enough to keep them quiet. If you look at USA today you can see the same trend. It is oligarchy in making. Corporations first exported jobs, now they are exporting also know how. The US oil will be next.
US democracy is in crisis. One party has its hand in pockets of one half and the other party in pockets of the other half of rich people or corporations. Corporations can legally buy the government etc. It is a class warfare out there and the rich are winning.
So here you have another reason to be independent. Get your own energy.
Back to name calling.
Individual actions are not fragmented. That means if we call people here names we call people in our life names. Our wives, our children, our neighbors, etc. It indicates that we think on an immature level, that we can not formulate cohesive sentences built on logic. So we attempt to bully with labels and name calling. We can not reason that another individual thinks differently than we do and if he or she does they are a liar, commie, etc.
The root of all this is fear, it is the fear that the reality that we have constructed, and that is being challenged, is wrong. When other individuals disagree with us our fear rises because we don't want to think that our fragile construction of reality is flawed. So we attempt to bully but in reality bullying is a form of cowardice.
Here's my output from my intertie. The 6002 is watts. That means while I sitting here typing my PV system is generating 6002/746 = 8.04 hp.
I guess my PV is lying too!
Rob
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You're late here, we went through this.
Let's say CC is occurring, what do we do next? We address the problem. How do we address the problem? We address pollution, but wait, pollution is already causing devastating damage to this planet and its inhabitants, so regardless whether we can prove CC or not we still have to fix the problem.
With that said I could go into a litany of pollution problems from acid rain to leaking coal slurries BUT if you are the American Petroleum Institute what would you rather do, face that fact that fossil fuel is causing massive problems on this planet or find a way to raise questions about GW?
Let's see, the WHO is telling us that smog an pollution are causing lung problems. What do you think API would rather focus on, the facts of smog and lung problems or the nebulous subject of "alarmists" and "greenies"?
Rob
Well said!
Capitalism driven by a republic is just as pernicious as Capitalism driven by communism.
Once we gave corporations the rights of the individual we stopped being a republic and started being an oligarchy.
You can not bribe a government (lobby money) and expect democracy to survive.
Or as Franklin said," It's a republic, madam, if you can keep it!"
tcreeley
Elite Member
excellent post!:thumbsup::thumbsup:
Short Game
Veteran Member
The oligarchy understands too well that Fascism is the way for it to maintain itself. The level and types of oppression the oligarchs need to maintain corporate rule hinges daily on the success of their organs of propaganda, and of that science, and of that infrastructure, they have invested heavily. For when these organs eventually fail, and calling this experience, "democracy," no longer flies, their storm troopers are there and at the ready. Then you'll see some class war, baby!
mostly_gas
Super Member
You have had your say, but have presented a convincing argument.
Let say we look for OBJECTIVE EVIDENCE of man made climate change.
Is climate static outside man's influence?
Loren49
Veteran Member
How do Americans think about climate change? In six different ways. ? Evidence Based Living
As divisive issues go, global climate change is a bit unusual. Often when there is a controversy, itç—´ because scientists disagree. However, as far as the human origins of climate change, there is actually almost no debate about the core issue; nearly all scientists, and all major scientific bodies, agree that the climate is changing and the primary causes are "anthropocentric" that is, caused by human activity.
Objectivity - Scientists or Corporate interests.............:thumbsup:
Loren
As divisive issues go, global climate change is a bit unusual. Often when there is a controversy, itç—´ because scientists disagree. However, as far as the human origins of climate change, there is actually almost no debate about the core issue; nearly all scientists, and all major scientific bodies, agree that the climate is changing and the primary causes are "anthropocentric" that is, caused by human activity.
Objectivity - Scientists or Corporate interests.............:thumbsup:
Loren
houstonscott
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Rob
Lets see your PV panels run my two 7ton A/C's night. You are proving my point, your PV panels wouldn't cut my lawn. Let me try again to explain it to you Rob. It's not about if a PV panel works, they have been working for 50 years, old technology. It's not about a formula that tells your computer how much power you think you are generating. It's not about any of that at all, I guess that's where you don't understand. It's all about price and reliability. People are not going to buy 25 years of part time power up front. It has to be affordable for all people. It has to be reliable and full time. It has to be cheap and simple, not for a self proclaimed genus like yourself. Solar is non of those things and will never supply main power until those things are solved, it does generate a small amount of power but that in it's self doesn't solve power issues. It will remain forever a foot note on the power generating in the USA. Formulas and pv panels on your roof are not proof of anything but how far that technology is from going main stream to supply the power we need no matter what you claim or it would be done. It simply is to expensive, to unreliable, for any serous consideration except for solving remote situational power needs.
HS
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crash325
Elite Member
"Let's see, the WHO is telling us that smog an pollution are causing lung problems. What do you think API would rather focus on, the facts of smog and lung problems or the nebulous subject of "alarmists" and "greenies"?
Rob"
Here ya go again.
Maybe If man made CC is warming the earth. ? Maybe we are saving ourselves from Global Cooling. Far worse than warming. Just imagine another Ice Age, Glaciers covering Canada, on down to NY City and farther.
Talk about burning fossil fuel of all types and massive pollution, millions of people killed and much of the world devastated.
Rob D
I just love how you distort things and reality.
When I talked about moving houses, they were not mobile homes or house trailers. That was in the late 40's & early 50's. For your weak mind, they were Stick Built. At our mining claims we moved an almost 100 year old house on to them.
With all the energy that you are creating, why do you need to use mercury filled bulbs made in China? Those are so popular that the Habi Store here has cases of them at 2 bulbs for a buck. Lot of people in there shopping and no 1 buying them.
On your rant about how great you are, all the wonderful things you have done and invented, patented. It figures out that you must be close to a 120 years old.
Just love how the greenies & warmies think moving pollution to somewhere else makes it go away. Coal, & other fossil fuel not used here, will be sent to places like China where pollution controls are almost non existent.
Any one that conserves differently that does not fit into their narrow ideas of conservation is are Wrong.
Rob"
Here ya go again.
Maybe If man made CC is warming the earth. ? Maybe we are saving ourselves from Global Cooling. Far worse than warming. Just imagine another Ice Age, Glaciers covering Canada, on down to NY City and farther.
Talk about burning fossil fuel of all types and massive pollution, millions of people killed and much of the world devastated.
Rob D
I just love how you distort things and reality.
When I talked about moving houses, they were not mobile homes or house trailers. That was in the late 40's & early 50's. For your weak mind, they were Stick Built. At our mining claims we moved an almost 100 year old house on to them.
With all the energy that you are creating, why do you need to use mercury filled bulbs made in China? Those are so popular that the Habi Store here has cases of them at 2 bulbs for a buck. Lot of people in there shopping and no 1 buying them.
On your rant about how great you are, all the wonderful things you have done and invented, patented. It figures out that you must be close to a 120 years old.
Just love how the greenies & warmies think moving pollution to somewhere else makes it go away. Coal, & other fossil fuel not used here, will be sent to places like China where pollution controls are almost non existent.
Any one that conserves differently that does not fit into their narrow ideas of conservation is are Wrong.
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