We've been here that long!
I think we have overstayed our welcome:laughing:
Global Warming?
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I think we have overstayed our welcome:laughing:
EE_Bota
Elite Member
I wound up, when people were inquiring "did anyone read the last two lines" thinking about the first lines...having to do with "wobble." Maybe we need to drop discussion of CO2 and start discussion of "wobble" since that was the precursor event.
EE_Bota
Elite Member
I don't understand the ice core data that well yet, I admit. But they must be a form of extrapolation, but you guys in the know about them are pretty sure it is not erroneous extrapolation, I take it.
EE_Bota
Elite Member
You are joking I know, but life was never welcome as best I can tell. Life fights a "life or death" struggle every day.
Short Game
Veteran Member
The way I understand it is, most year's depositions of snow are identifiable, and these depositions can be counted. These annual layers contain bubbles that were that year's atmosphere at that location. The bubbles can be isolated and analyzed as to their compositions. The fact that the CO2 amounts vary both upwardly and downwardly suggests that they can be trusted to be a stable indicator within ice.
powerpace
Veteran Member
The extrapolations are from the ice cores. Ice cores are unreliable unless you have a representative sample over a wide area. Samples from the Antarctic have been taken from less than one-hundred locations. The majority of samples are from the coastal bases. Being the 5th largest continent twice the size of Australia I don't believe core samples tell much of anything. The lakes under the Arctic have been there for thousands of years under ice that never gets above -32 degrees. My theory is Volcanic action creating the heat.
Little Ice Age - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ice core - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Isotopic analysis of the ice in the core can be linked to temperature and global sea level variations. Analysis of the air contained in bubbles in the ice can reveal the palaeocomposition of the atmosphere, in particular CO2 variations. There are great problems relating the dating of the included bubbles to the dating of the ice, since the bubbles only slowly "close off" after the ice has been deposited. Nonetheless, recent work has tended to show that during deglaciations CO2 increases lags temperature increases by 600 +/- 400 years.[2] Beryllium-10 concentrations are linked to cosmic ray intensity which can be a proxy for solar strength.
EE_Bota
Elite Member
Thanks. Although I do have a few doubts about it, that part may be the part I find most straightforward.
If we look at only ice cores, and are willing to be a bit silly (I am always willing to be a bit silly) we know that all the CO2 concentrations found in ice to date are concentrations that are conducive to ice buildup. See...silly.
So, the cores we are most interested in are the ones that can't be found. Silly I know, but I admitted I am not above silly.
Another silly way of looking at it, but less silly perhaps...if we find CO2 concentrations in the air that are higher or lower than can be found in any ice core...we should probably puzzle over that, and worry a little about if that is meaningful and dangerous.
We should not worry long in any case unless it is actionable. I brought up the actionable aspect when I mentioned the plant engineer's perspective. Worrying about things that are not actionable is truly silly, but very human.
A parallel thread to this one should be "Undemocratic one world government control of global warming policy." This is not because we have such, but because we would need such to enhance the possibility of actionable solutions that could work.
Yea I thought Egons statement was pretty funny. But in all perspective if we are lucky we are here 90 years some a little longer some a little shorter. In the the overall time frame we are here less than a nano second on the big time line which makes all our second guessing and calling each other idiots for not seeing it the way we see it, pretty insignificant.
If I can make it past 12/21/12 then I'm just gonna enjoy the years I got left on this planet whether it's getting hotter or colder, so yes one day we will have overstayed our welcome, I just may not be here to pack my bags and make an exit.
powerpace
Veteran Member
The extrapolations are from the ice cores. Ice cores are unreliable unless you have a representative sample over a wide area. Samples from the Antarctic have been taken from less than one-hundred locations. The majority of samples are from the coastal bases. Being the 5th largest continent twice the size of Australia I don't believe core samples tell much of anything. The lakes under the Arctic have been there for thousands of years under ice that never gets above -32 degrees. My theory is Volcanic action creating the heat.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_ice_age
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_core
Isotopic analysis of the ice in the core can be linked to temperature and global sea level variations. Analysis of the air contained in bubbles in the ice can reveal the palaeocomposition of the atmosphere, in particular CO2 variations. There are great problems relating the dating of the included bubbles to the dating of the ice, since the bubbles only slowly "close off" after the ice has been deposited. Nonetheless, recent work has tended to show that during deglaciations CO2 increases lags temperature increases by 600 +/- 400 years.[2] Beryllium-10 concentrations are linked to cosmic ray intensity which can be a proxy for solar strength.
crash325
Elite Member
Ya Gotta just love this argument (Sorry I meant Discussion.)
But if anyone thinks about it.
Global Warming is Far Better than Global Cooling.
Well global cooling would help with keeping out beer cold. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
But if anyone thinks about it.
Global Warming is Far Better than Global Cooling.
Well global cooling would help with keeping out beer cold. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:
Egon
Epic Contributor
slowlyd "close off" after the ice has been deposited. Nonetheless, recent work has
Ice is not deposited. Snow is deposited. Ice is formed by pressure from deposited snow.
Ice is not deposited. Snow is deposited. Ice is formed by pressure from deposited snow.
N80
Super Member
Egon, ice is formed by water freezing.
I've been away from this discussion for a long time. But let me just throw this out:
It is almost impossible for change to be all 'bad' on a planet with the level of ecosystem diversity of earth. It is almost a given that many of the species, ecosystems and environments (both natural and manmade) will benefit from global warming.
And yet you never hear that. Ever. Not from any so called scientist, political pundit, anarchist, peace grouper, eco-terrorist or tree hugger. Never, ever.
This is THE single piece of evidence that puts manmade global warming in the same category as UFOs and Bigfoot.
Can you imagine how their agendas would be demolished when the headlines read that manmade global warming is going to BENEFIT some adorable creature or some vanishing tribe of aboriginals?
I've been away from this discussion for a long time. But let me just throw this out:
It is almost impossible for change to be all 'bad' on a planet with the level of ecosystem diversity of earth. It is almost a given that many of the species, ecosystems and environments (both natural and manmade) will benefit from global warming.
And yet you never hear that. Ever. Not from any so called scientist, political pundit, anarchist, peace grouper, eco-terrorist or tree hugger. Never, ever.
This is THE single piece of evidence that puts manmade global warming in the same category as UFOs and Bigfoot.
Can you imagine how their agendas would be demolished when the headlines read that manmade global warming is going to BENEFIT some adorable creature or some vanishing tribe of aboriginals?
Nicb7800
Member
I love it, I love it, denying science! Sorry to be a voice of reason, but you can find just as many of scientist if not more saying that global warming is not happening. So remember its not nice to try and bully somebody, when I am quite familiar with the tactics used when all you want to do is dumb down any opposition to what you believe is true. We all no what he meant by the 5 billion year thing, he meant the earth not us so stop beating a broken drum. Lol Nic
Nicb7800
Member
N80
Thank you, I feel like there might be another sane person in the room. Lol
Thank you, I feel like there might be another sane person in the room. Lol
No you cannot. The deniers are in the extreme minority. Emphasis on the extreme.
powerpace
Veteran Member
slowlyd "close off" after the ice has been deposited. Nonetheless, recent work has
Ice is not deposited. Snow is deposited. Ice is formed by pressure from deposited snow.
In the Antarctic falling snow and wind driven ice crystals contribute to the formation of deposits. The Ice crystals are freed by sublimation. The extreme dry air will take the moisture away from some crystals and allow them to blow away.
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AchingBack
Elite Member
Here is another sane person whose name most here won't recognize, Dr. Tim Ball. Dr. Ball wrote, Slaying the Sky Dragon - Death of the Greenhouse Gas Theory
Even before publication, Slaying the Sky Dragon was destined to be the benchmark for future generations of climate researchers. This is the world's first and only full volume refutation of the greenhouse gas theory of man-made global warming.
Nine leading international experts methodically expose how willful fakery and outright incompetence were hidden within the politicized realm of government climatology. Applying a thoughtful and sympathetic writing style, the authors help even the untrained mind to navigate the maze of atmospheric thermodynamics. Step-by-step the reader is shown why the so-called greenhouse effect cannot possibly exist in nature.
By deft statistical analysis the cornerstones of climate equations incorrectly calculated by an incredible factor of three - are exposed then shattered.
This volume is a scientific tour de force and the game-changer for international environmental policymakers as well as being a joy to read for hard-pressed taxpayers everywhere.
Dr. Tim Ball, one of the first Canadians to hold a Ph.D. in climatology, wrote his doctoral thesis at the University of London (England) using the remarkable records of the Hudson?s Bay Company to reconstruct climate change from 1714 to 1952. He has published numerous articles on climate change and its impact on the human condition. Dr Ball has served on numerous committees at the federal, provincial, and municipal levels on climate, water resources, and environmental issues. He was a professor of climatology at the University of Winnipeg for 28 years. He is currently working as an environmental consultant and public speaker based in Victoria and has written, with Dr Stuart Houston, 18th Century Naturalists on Hudson Bay, a book on the science and climate of the fur trade (McGill-Queens University Press, 2003).
Select Works
* "The Science Isn't Settled - The Limitations of Global Climate Models," Dr. Timothy Ball, March 21, 2007
Nicb7800
Member
I think you should maybe check your facts tim. Or maybe turn it off of msnbc. Like I said earlier it's pointless to argue about things like this. Because at the end of the day I still feel the same way and obviously you do also. So let's agree to disagree, and if you have such a huge problem with c02 then why don't you lead buy example? Stop driving your car, eating meat, heating your house, doing your laundry,flying on a plane, using you computer, talking on your phone, turning your lights on, etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc etc, I could go on for days, and days. My problem is people are huge hypocrites. We're do you think power comes from??? A current bush??? Lol or that evil oil???? Wow that was already here wasnt it? Or some evil capitalist ginned that up over night? Point is its pointless to argue about things that will never go away, you cannot just pick and choose your argument! Choose to hand pick the so called facts you want to use, and choose to leave all others out. :confused2: Nic
He is a complete fraud. An embarrasment to the university.
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