Glow plug tip

[JClark]

The senior mechanic at my dealer learned a new trick at JD tractor school and passed it on to me. To make starting a 4000 series tractor easier in cold weather put the range selector in gear and turn the key to the start position and hold it there for 5 seconds or so. The glow plugs only come on when the key is in the start position and the safety interlock will keep the engine from cranking. You could use the PTO switch too.

This works great on my 4110. Cold starts in cold weather usually entail a few seconds of cranking followed by lots of smoke and really rough running. By holding the key in the start position for 5 seconds before cranking the glow plugs have a chance to get hot and the engine starts immediately with practically no smoke.

Apologies to those who already knew this trick.

 

[thcri]

Your glow plugs only come on in the start position?? I guess I can't say I have ever seen that cause usually you do have to let the plugs warm up first. My New Holland's both have a position before the starter position with a light to let me know the plugs are energised. In colder weather I have to have them on at least ten to fifteen seconds before engaging the starter. I can't imagine hitting the starter at the same time the plugs get energised you would get any place on starting.

murph

 

[frank_f15]

same here on my kubota, seperate position just for glow plugs, with indicator light.

 

[RoyJackson]

On my Deere 670, one must turn the key counterclockwise to actuate the glowplugs...hold for 5 to 10 seconds (you can hold it as long as you want to...I use 10 seconds normally), then clockwise to start the engine. The counterclockwise position is spring loaded...one must hold it in position or it rotates back to the Off position.

The larger 4xxx series uses a heated air intake system (don't know a thing about that) and the manuals don't even mention glow plugs.

The 4110 manual reads:

<font color="red"> 10. Allow the glow plugs to preheat the engine. After approximately three seconds listen for a click. Engine is now ready to start.
</font>

The 43xx manual states:

<font color="blue"> 10. For cold weather starting, use the intake air heater system. Activate the intake air heater system by pushing in the ignition key switch with the key, and holding it there for the required time:

· 10 - 15 seconds for temperatures as low as -18° (0°F).

· 15 - 30 seconds for temperatures below -18° (0°F). </font>


So, it appears the 4110 series machine's glow plugs are on a timed circuit. it appears by enabling one of the safety interlocks and turning the key to "start", that extends the time the plugs are on (since the engine won't crank while the interlock is enabled). However, next time you start your 4110 using the method described by the senior mechanic, listen for that "click" described in the 4110 manual. If it clicks after 3 or 4 seconds, the "better" starting may be more psychological then real.

I dunno...seems like my 13 year old 670 might have a better glow plug system...just a bit more work.

 

[yellowsocks93]

The 4210-4710 use the air heater system and so do the 790 and 990. Your correct on how to work both types. I also don't really know how the air heater works but I know not to use ether to aid in cold weather starting or there could be an explosion according to the manual.

 

[RoyJackson]

"not to use ether to aid in cold weather starting or there could be an explosion according to the manual. "

Back in the late 60's, I ran a Ford backhoe for a year. There was a place on the dash you could insert a can of ether. All you could do is give it one shot at a time.
The danger with using ether down an intake is using too much. Even using a little could cause a backfire on a gasoline engine. With a diesel's high compression, you could blow the head off.
If you got to use it, a little whiff is all you want to use...just enough to get the engine turning.

For we residential owners, there is no need to even consider using ether. Bring the tractor inside the garage or use that block heater. The machines (like your 990) using a preheater in the intake system probably have an exposed heater element (sort of like the burner on an electric stove). Using ether in a system like that or with automatically actuated glow plugs (as described on the 4110 tractor) would ignite the ether. Not a good thing there, friends... The ether should be ignited by the engine compression..that's the whole idea behind using it.

In a more rural (farm) environment, or at a construction site...might not be any other option since electricity isn't always available in the field. When I was operating that backhoe...wasn't too uncommon to see a small fire ite underneath some of the equipment (dozers and such). That was done to heat the oil so the equipment would start. How's that for a block heater?

But, if you have to use it...just a whiff, no more!

 

[RalphVa]

Wonder why JD went to glow plugs? My neighbor's old 1950ish diesel JD starts at the first turn of the key to start, instantly, no matter it had sat unstarted all winter. It's direct injection; I guess. Smooth running engine, too.

Ralph

 

[RoyJackson]

"Wonder why JD went to glow plugs?"

I've never seen a diesel without glow plugs, but my experience doesn't go back beyond the mid 60's.

I suspect the mid-50's Deere had lower compression, thus easier turning of the engine. Also, VA doesn't get that cold most of the time. That old tractor probably has a huge flywheel as well. That would account for the smooth running.

But didn't some of the old Deeres have a small gasoline powered starter engine?

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I've never seen a diesel without glow plugs, but my experience doesn't go back beyond the mid 60's )</font>

I'm not sure, but I think there are actually quite a large number of them without glow plugs. I think perhaps there are some different names used by different manufacturers, but one system is an electric heating element in the air intake (still have to hold the key, or another switch, for awhile to get it hot before attempting to start). That way the air going into the cylinders is hot enough to light off the engine. That's what the old Oliver I used baling hay had. And I've driven two trucks; one a GMC and the other a Freightliner, both with CAT engines that I don't think had glow plugs; instant start just like a gasoline engine. even cold. But they had an automatic injection system to inject a squirt of starter fluid (ether?) when you hit the starter.

 

[JClark]

On my 4110 the glow plugs only stay on about one second when I turn the key to the on position. I am judging this by the solenoid click I hear and the indicator lights getting brighter. The sequence seems to be:

Turn key, fuel valve and glow plugs solenoids click on
One second later glow plugs solenoid clicks off, lights brighten

On my tractor that one second of glow plug heating is not enough to make for an easy cold start in cold weather, which in my world in anything under 50 degrees.

In the 4000 series everything above the 4110 has direct injecting which makes a difference in starting behavior.

My old 950 had an intake preheat but it never needed it.

 

[yellowsocks93]

I am really cautious about starting combines and larger tractors with ether. Most have a yellow button that you press(looks like a horn button). If there are two things I hate it's jumping batteries and using ether. Too much risk of an explosion.

 

[Hypernix]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( On my 4110 the glow plugs only stay on about one second when I turn the key to the on position. I am judging this by the solenoid click I hear and the indicator lights getting brighter.
<snip>
On my tractor that one second of glow plug heating is not enough to make for an easy cold start in cold weather, which in my world in anything under 50 degrees.)</font>

Well I wanted to ask this question a while ago but since we are on the subject...

When I girst got my 4110, when I turned the key to on, after a few seconds (3 to 5) I would hear quite a loud click. This lasted about two weeks. Now when I turn the key to on, the click is so soft I'm having trouble hearing it. Is there a possibility here that something is wrong with the timming on this glow plug system?
When starting the tractor even during the summer, I always felt that during the first few seconds (10 - 30), the tractor ran a little rough for my linking. Anyways this winter I have been using the block heater all the time and the tractor is starting so much better and it dosen't run rough at all during the first seconds.
This is making me wonder if I should use the block heater even this summer! /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif
I just can't keep myself from asking this again: Is that glow plug system setup correctly on the 4110s??? /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

Hyp3rnix

 

[4710and110TLB]

The glow plugs are never good to use ether with they remain hot which will cause them to mushroom inside the engine which is then like pulling a square piece of metal thourgh a round hole. On my 4710 and other similar sizes it uses an air heater which heats air to ignite the fuel but it only works if you hold the key in. It only needs it below 30 degrees or so. If you must use ether learn how to disconnect the heating system or just don't. You should not need to use the preheaters on any temp above 30 or 40 on the newer JD 4xxx series. Just my opinion.

 

[Tractors4u]

I know that the 2210 owners have discovered the trick you talk about. On my 4310 it has a preheat position on the key switch. Maybe this is something you have to do on the 4000 series but not on the 4X10 series.

 

[JClark]

From the comments here I think this tip only works on the models with indirect injection and glow plugs; 2210, 4010, 4100 and 4110. The rest of the 4xxx seem to use intake heaters in conjunction with their direct injection.

The trick works great for me. My 4110 now starts instantly with no rough running and almost no smoke.

I know from hard to start diesels, experience I gained in the boat business. Try an old Lister, those 1 and 2 cylinder Volvos and some of the old Perkins. That was where I learned to love Yanmar diesels. They seemed to ALWAYS start, regardless of the temp, and very rarely gave any trouble. I bought my 950 years ago because it was made by Yanmar, I did not care about the green paint.

 

[jimgerken]

My 4100 has the glow plugs which are timed to heat for about 5 seconds when the key is turned to "on". Then you turn it to "start" after hearing the second click (glowplugs de-energized). When the weather is below 30 degrees, I wait for the first five seconds, then turn the key "off" and do it again, for an additional 5 seconds of preheat. I have started it only once at 10 degrees F , and then used three preheat cycles. I have found that using plenty of preheat enables engine to start immediately without cranking too many times. I guess this notion evolved since all the other deisel engines I ever started had manual preheat buttons and a chart showing preheat times versus ambient temperatures. I remember sitting in the cold cold shed preheating for a minute and 15 seconds on an Oliver 1955, for occaisional winter use. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[fgross335_2210]

On my 2210 the glow plugs only come on in the "start" position and cycle for about 3-4 seconds. To start the engine I turn the PTO switch on and cycle the glow plugs. One time above 40 degrees, 2 times 20-40 degrees and 3 times when it gets really cold. Then I turn the PTO off and hit start again and she fires right up. Still runs rough when really cold but smooth within 30 seconds.

I did use the blockheater a few times and man what a difference! But I still needed at least one cycle of the glow plugs to get it started (sitting in an unheated/uninsulated building).