GM forced to close 4 truck plants

[gemini5362]

Call it what ever you want, but he was in the UAW. I asked him if he did anything other than take care of that room and he said no. And as far as being happy he made 70G's a year, I am mixed on that point. Sure I am happy for anyone who makes a big wage and comes to spend some of it with me, but at the same time I am not so one sided that I can see how paying a guy to clean one room 70G's a year doesn't make a lick of sense.

If he was doing something like that he had probably had some kind of senior position and got hurt on the job. There are nasty little things like laws that say you have to let people that are injured work. I work with someone whose family are UAW members I will ask them what they make.

 

[gemini5362]

Ok, here is my story as a pilot. I graduated from Indiana State University with a Bachelor Of Science in Aero Space Technology. I made good grades and ended up with a 3.5 gpa. I made all A's and B's in my major but slacked a little in the other bull_____ classes. I was in the top of my graduating class and like by many of the professors and in return was asked to stay for a year after graduation and teach.

At the end of that year I interviewed with United Airlines and was offered a job flying Beech 1900D's out of Chicago Ohare. The starting salary was under $20,000 a year. Give me a break. That was working 17 days a month, tons of nights in hotels, and 14 hour days. I took a job as a charter pilot in Anderson Indiana flying Cessna 310's, Piper Navajo's, Mitsubishi MU2's, Cessna Grand Caravan's, and Pilatus PC12. I did this for 2 1/2 years and averaged $45,000 a year. I flew about 20 days a month but only did 1 or 2 overnights and was off most weekends. This was a much better road for me and was actually able to afford a car, home, and eat.

I eventually moved on to corporate flying jobs and have since worked for 3 companies flying Pilatus PC12, Piper Cheyenne, Cessna Citation, Mitsubishi Diamond Jet, and Rockwell Sabre 65. I make a good living but I am not getting rich. My schedule varies per the demand of the company. I have flown as little as 12 days in a month and as much as 25 days. All in all its a great job but there is no security.

Now for the guys and gals I graduated with. Many have move on to the big iron form Boeing and Air Bus. They are taking pay cuts, working long tough hours and treated poorly on the average. One good friend got on with Major Airline out of College. He is union and has been a pilot for them going on 10 years. During that time he has been out of work for over 3 years due to strikes at the airline and the aircraft manufacturer. He works the standard 17 day month. The problem is his base is JFK New York and he lives in Indiana. He has to travel back and forth to work on his own time 4-5 times each month to go to work. He is not getting rich either. I would guess he is making $75,000 a year. Would any of you guys be away from home 20 plus days a month for that salary. Yes, he could live in New York but he does not want to raise a family in NY.

Chris

That is a hoot that you dont think 75,000 a year is a very good salary. Do you know anybody that works for a living ?
My son worked as a prison guard for the great sum of 10.00 an hour.
And he had to deal with convicted killers. I bet he would not mind travelling some on his own time for 75,000 a year
As a matter of fact I would not mind travelling some on my own time for that kind of money.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

By the way I am still waiting for someone to show me some of those 70.00 per hour jobs that all the union folks are getting cause I am not seeing those.

From Thursday's Globe and Mail
September 27, 2007 at 1:12 AM EST

"General Motors Corp. and the United Auto Workers reached a deal that shifts the burden of retiree health-care costs for U.S. workers to the union. The agreement dramatically reduces GM's burdensome cost structure

GM will transfer its $51-billion (U.S.) retiree health care obligation to a trust, called a Voluntary Employees Beneficiary Association or VEBA, and finance it with a cash infusion of about 70 cents on the dollar or $36-billion.

That move will trim its average labour costs including benefits by about $18 or $19 an hour, Deutsche Bank AG auto analyst Rod Lache estimated.

Average hourly U.S. labour costs will fall to about $55, close to the $48 that Japan-based auto makers are estimated to pay their U.S. workers.

The $55 figure is also considerably below the $70 (Canadian) average hourly wage and benefit package paid to CAW workers at Detroit Three plants in Canada."

$55 + $18 = $73. Sounds pretty close to $70. to me.

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

Have you read many headlines about the catastrophic bankruptcy failures of Canadian businesses as a result of their "Union workers"? No....AKfish

Probably don't get too much CDN news in Alaska. this is just one small example:

January 24, 2008
MICHAEL HAMMOND
RECORD STAFF; With files from Rose Simone, Record staff

KITCHENER
"A 76-year-old Kitchener company once known as a parts supplier for the Avro Arrow has closed its doors for good.
Ledco Ltd. shut down its Strasburg Road plant yesterday after unionized workers failed to reach a consensus over whether to accept wage cuts of 25 per cent."

"The company gave (the union) until 3 o'clock in the afternoon to change their stand," he said. "We were willing to give the company something, but the union would not allow that. That puts us out on the streets."


Here is another:
Feb 12, 2008 04:30 AM
Tony Van Alphen
Business Reporter


Martinrea International Inc. says it plans to close a major auto-parts operation in Kitchener and eliminate 1,200 jobs because a high dollar and shifting market demands are making the company uncompetitive.
The Vaughan-based company, however, suggests its ability to secure new contracts and keep the operation running would improve if workers agreed to cut labour costs.
Jaekel said it will be impossible for the plant to attract any new business because the wages and benefits of workers are uncompetitive. They currently earn about $45 an hour in wages and benefits.
"We can't get new work at those rates," Jaekel said. "We have given them (workers) something to think about."

Lots of similar stories available.

Regardless, whether labour is overpaid / underpaid, lazy or not. Regardless, whether management is overpaid or not, the North American manufacturing base is vanishing at an ever increasing rate. Whether because of increasing numbers of unskilled immigrants or increasing under educated youth the question that needs to be answered and I don't believe anyone has touched on this yet.

If the manufacturing base disappears where are all these people going to find jobs?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

If the manufacturing base disappears where are all these people going to find jobs?

Don't worry, the unions will take care of them

 

[CinderSchnauzer]

Don't worry, the unions will take care of them

Never going to happen. A Union takes no social responsibility. They may have been idealistic at some point in the past. Now they are just a business - keep those dues flowing and the union bosses making big $$$. CAW policy is "no concessions." They'd rather close a plant than agree to a wage cut.

 

[Builder]

From Thursday's Globe and Mail
September 27, 2007 at 1:12 AM EST

"General Motors Corp. and the United Auto Workers reached a deal that shifts the burden of retiree health-care costs for U.S. workers to the union. The agreement dramatically reduces GM's burdensome cost structure

GM will transfer its $51-billion (U.S.) retiree health care obligation to a trust, called a Voluntary Employees Beneficiary Association or VEBA, and finance it with a cash infusion of about 70 cents on the dollar or $36-billion.

That move will trim its average labour costs including benefits by about $18 or $19 an hour, Deutsche Bank AG auto analyst Rod Lache estimated.

Average hourly U.S. labour costs will fall to about $55, close to the $48 that Japan-based auto makers are estimated to pay their U.S. workers.

The $55 figure is also considerably below the $70 (Canadian) average hourly wage and benefit package paid to CAW workers at Detroit Three plants in Canada."

$55 + $18 = $73. Sounds pretty close to $70. to me.

'nuff said.

 

[Builder]

builder why dont you start selling your properties for 20.00 a square foot. That would allow people to work for pennies an hour and you can single handedly start reversing the trend of jobs leaving the US

Up until this post, I took you seriously.

So let me get this straight- you're proposing I cut my $/SF by like 80%?

Would a union construction company do that? Heck no. A union wouldn't even make enough of a concession to let their employer stay in business so they'd wake up to jobs the next day.

It would be kind of amusing to go to one of those union meetings and listen to employees take a stand for another $1/hr only to lose their jobs and employers forever.

 

[Slackdaddy]

Hey,
Why don't we pay them union workers $250/Hr, then they will go out and spend it at all our business's and shops and we'll all be rich !!
Heck lets raise the min wage to $200/hr and we'll all be rich.
I thinks thats the logic that is being spewed.

How about this: A company has a job opening, they offer it up for X dollars/hr, if someone is willing to do that job for X/hr, they take that job ??
If no is willing to do the job for x/hr, they raise the offer till they get someone to do the job ?? If the company is so evil then no one will work for them and they will go under or change there ways.

I know value of MY skills and labor, if a company is un willing to pay that, I move on, If no company is willing pay that I have to re-evaluate my worth.
I could care less if the CEO is making 30 billion a week, what does that have to do with the value of my work ????? You as a worker are worth what someone is willing to pay you - PERIOD !

I was in industrial construction for years, the unions - a joke, the union workers (and I use that term loosely) a bigger joke. I wanted to work and went on my own at 26. I am now a self employed one man show, have been for 15 years. I now turn down 80% of new clients, My current customers are willing to pay my asking price, no questions asked, ever.

Slack

 

[johnk]

What do your current clients do for a living? Since you are a one man show what do you do to earn your income? How much do you charge and what makes you worth the expense? Just curious....