GM forced to close 4 truck plants

[gemini5362]

Don't worry Builder, the union will be happy when it "protects" the workers out of a job and the new axle supplier for GM is out of Mexico or ???? They did it to my ex-FIL. The officials bragged about saving him from working for less than he was worth at the plant he was at. The company was forced to close it because it couldn't compete with more modern meat packing plants here in the US. He ended up working at a lumber yard as a delivery driver for just over minimum wage and no benefits. Some protection huh?

Protects workers out of a job ?

I believe there have been several companies that have moved overseas or to mexico that were non union. What is the excuse that you use for them having to move ?

 

[gemini5362]

Gemini: I should have made myself clearer. By sub standard I meant lack of productivity, working slow, walking slow, taking 30 minutes to go to the parts dept to get a part when it could have taken 2 minutes, coming back from lunch 15 minutes late every day, hangovers every Monday, etc

I did not mean to insinuate that the end results of their labor was sub standard when they finally did do some work. Your Silverado is probably a well assembled fine piece of machinery. BUT, how many inspectors did it have to go through before being allowed out of the assembly plant? AND, how long did it take to assemble compared to a foreign built truck?

We have all known that worker who does great work with almost 100 % perfection when he is on his game. The problem is getting him to do that at least 80% of the time. Running wide open for 3-5 good hours a day is not the same as doing it for 8-10 hours.


I fully expected a lot more comments about Eastern by now. I know we have a lot of pilots and union people here on TBN.

Discussing unions is almost like religion or politics. You will never win an argument and you will never change the other persons mind. At least they don't cause wars like the other two.

I do not know what you have to base your observations on so I cannot acurately respond I do know that what you are describing is a stereotype that has been portraid of union employees for years and years. The majority of Union Employees that I deal with work very hard to perform their jobs. Since I am a maintenance employee I would be one of the guys that you are talking about taking 30 minutes to get a part. Sometimes it does take me a while to get a part especially if we are out of that part because management decided that we really dont need to stock more that two of something that we use a 1000 of on our machines. When I drive my car for an hour to meet someone halfway from another plant with the part I need and then drive back it takes me a while to get it that is true. If it is a part that I have in stock usually it dont take me very long and if it is a critical piece of equipment I have been known to walk very fast since I would get disciplined by management for running (safety violation)

 

[CumminsLuke]

Ok heres an example. For those of you who do not know, I am an automobile dealer. Myself and two of my other family members own equal shares in two new car dealerships. One time about 5 or 6 years ago we had the chance when a new model came out to go take a tour of the plant where it was made which happens to be about 50 miles from us. After we got in the front gate, we made it into the front lobby of the plant. It was a room I'd guess to be about 50'x50'. Had a receptionist desk, a bunch of chairs, some magazines and one trash can that I could see. As we walk in I spot an old customer of mine who I have known for 15 years standing in the lobby. I knew he worked for this particular manufacturer for about 20 years but I didn't know exactly what he did. I go up to him and shake his hand, ask him how he's doing, we chat a few minutes. Then I ask him, "what do you do here?". He says "I take care of this room". I say "What do you mean take care of this room?". He responds with, "well, I sweep the floors, empty the trash, and make sure the magazine's are straight". I said goodbye and proceeded on. I know for a fact this guy made over $70,000 a year as I had taken many a credit applications from him over the years when he was purchasing from me.

Does this sound out of line to anybody but me?

 

[Robert_in_NY]

Protects workers out of a job ?

I believe there have been several companies that have moved overseas or to mexico that were non union. What is the excuse that you use for them having to move ?

There could be any number of reasons, market was too competitive so they needed to cut cost and it is cheaper to move then stay is the most common reason. When you get taxed left and right in the US it is hard to compete with foreign companies. You move plants to different areas to stay viable or else you are out of business.

 

[Builder]

The vast majority of companies that were in the US that closed and moved overseas were union dominated plants.

RobertinNY,

After I graduated from college, I worked for a company for 2 years that sent me to upstate New York to help "close" plants in the Sweden, Brockport, Rochester, Buffalo, etc. area. I toured at least 10 plants up there in '87 & '88 that had closed their doors and sent production either down south or overseas.

Black & Decker, 3M, Eastman Kodak and Polaroid were 4 of them I remember. I remember the plant manager at Black & decker weeping while he showed me the company fairgrounds & picnic area. He told me that families used to gather there for company softball games and parties. I asked him why the plant shut down and he told me it was out of control wages and the EPA did them in. 1,200 jobs.

Where's Black & Decker made now? China.

I think that union wages being so high is the biggest problem. High taxation is a problem, too. Notice on TV lately they've been talking about how Ohio which has high corp income taxes has lost like 300,000 manufacturing jobs in the last decade while Texas, which has no state corp income tax has gained nearly a million new mfctg jobs?

The EPA and enviromental groups also now have so much power that they have helped regulate manufacturing right out of the country.

 

[gemini5362]

Here is an interesting article about why companies move plants overseas. Why U.S. Jobs Move Overseas

 

[Builder]

And look what your article says:

Why do U.S. companies relocate their plants overseas, thereby abolishing U.S. jobs?
(a) they can hire workers at very low wages (such as 30 cents an hour in China), (b) the companies don't have to pay any employee benefits, (c) they don't have to comply with safety and environmental regulations, (d) they don't have to pay foreign taxes when they export their products back to us.
The correct answer is all of the above.

The first 2 reasons (a,b) are the 2 things that unions have taken too far in US manufacturing and 2 things many of us here feel unions have taken too far. Their wages are many times higher than the rest of the world and they have excessive benefits.

 

[gemini5362]

Here is an article about companies moving overseas

Why U.S. Jobs Move Overseas

 

[390GT]

CUMMINSLAKE; sounds to me like your customer was plant services (janitor) I'm sure he did other area's in the plant, you just saw him doing that part of his job. P.S. Arn't you glad he made $70,000 a year.
GEMINI; I agree with what you are saying.

 

[Builder]

Southwest is the most heavily unionized airline in the buisness. Suprise suprise they are also the most profitable. When All the other airlines are talking about going bankrupt Southwest is making a profit and doing very well. They dont complain about union employees they try to work with their union employees and manage their resources effecively.

Maybe this is how they did it:


Records: Southwest Airlines flew 'unsafe' planes - CNN.com

You know, my family probably flew on those planes. Shame on them for doing that. Inexcuseable.