GM Truck Warranty

[gemini5362]

So are you denying the fact that the sweetheart deals they signed in the 50's and 60's have nothing to do with it?? And they seem to get more and more greedy every time a contract is up for bargaining. Yeah, I know they are mis-managed too, but still, the Unions are not innocent. How come the Japanese are muche better off, non-unionized??

Face it, the Unions have outgrown their usefulness!!

Actually I am not faceing anything I disagree with you completely I believe the unions are needed now more than ever. You are entitled to your opinion but I totally disagree with you.
Here is the problem I have with your arguements. Contracts are between two entities. Each side tries to get something they want. If they dont get enough that they are satisfied with they dont sign. One side can get something huge the other side might appear to get only small items but if you know the game plan one of those small items might be a major concession that they have been wanting for a long time. It might have something to do with something that is needed later on. The UAW might have gotten sweet heart deals in the time frame you are talking about but what did the Auto companies get out of it. Even if it was just to bring workers out of a strike (were they on strike the period you are talking about) The auto industry decided that haveing trained workers were worth what ever they agreed to.

If enough employees at a union plant decide that the union is hurting them they can take a vote and get rid of the union. No one forces workers to have a unon.


You keep wanting to lay blame on the union and you are just flat out wrong. There are enough guilty parties in the problem to really spread the blame around Start with consumers who walked into the door and did not say 40,000 for a new car are you crazy,goodbye.

 

[Builder]

The unions are only one of the major factors. Our very own government has contributed greatly to the demise of the big-3 through CAFE & EPA regulations, trade policies with other countries and corp income taxes.

Sharp spikes in fuel prices (like the drastic ones we just experienced) were also a huge factor since the Big 3 build larger vehicles that consume more fuel. When fuel spikes the way they did for a year, car shoppers don't buy the larger models that the Big 3 build and also earn their best profits on. That hurt them dramatically. Building more fuel efficient models that also appeal to buyers would help them. They SUV hybrids were a great idea, but too little too late.

Most of the Big 3's plants are in northern states controlled by state governments that charge some of the highest state corp taxes in the country.

Off shore companies that locate here build plants in southern states which have some of the lowest corp tax rates in the country.

Combine the legacy costs of the Big 3, union work salaries, higher average corp taxes from our gov't, great dependence on profits generated by larger less gas efficient vehicles and bad trade policies with other countries and it all adds up to a great disadvantage to foreign competiton.

 

[toy]

Someone asked I believe in this thread what the labor cost was per vehicle, one of the big three exec. said that it was about 10%. I would say that is what it is counting when the material is placed in the plant till the time the car goes out of the plant. The thing about that though is that the cost of the material that comes into the plant has labor costs included in that price. When you think about it the economy is a circle and in order to function properly you have to have a complete circle, when you neglect that circle or try to short cut that circle you have a problem and that is what has happened and unless that circle is restored things won't get better they will get worse. How much worse will it get would be a good question in my opinion, and it should be answered. I would say at the current trend it will only level off when the standard of living in our country sinks to the level of the lowest standard of living that we are incorporating into that circle or until theirs rise to ours. Since some of the countries that we have trade with have a depressed standard of living and don't seem to put much concern about raising their standard of living, then ours will sink to theirs.

 

[Builder]

Whether or not I agree with it, I don't consider your views as "babble", but as another insight into a problem. The way to solve this crisis we're in is to not downplay another viewpoint, but consider it in conjunction with others to formulate a viable solution.

 

[Gator6x4]

Being a UAW Union Officer or Executive pays good. This data is from 2006. Could not find information for 2007 or 2008. I am sure it was not less.

The UAW paid its employees $90 million in salary in 2006. Its officers made $2.9 million in 2006, with 22 regional directors, vice presidents and other officers getting more than $100,000 each.

 

[gemini5362]

The unions are only one of the major factors. Our very own government has contributed greatly to the demise of the big-3 through CAFE & EPA regulations, trade policies with other countries and corp income taxes.

Sharp spikes in fuel prices (like the drastic ones we just experienced) were also a huge factor since the Big 3 build larger vehicles that consume more fuel. When fuel spikes the way they did for a year, car shoppers don't buy the larger models that the Big 3 build and also earn their best profits on. That hurt them dramatically. Building more fuel efficient models that also appeal to buyers would help them. They SUV hybrids were a great idea, but too little too late.

Most of the Big 3's plants are in northern states controlled by state governments that charge some of the highest state corp taxes in the country.

Off shore companies that locate here build plants in southern states which have some of the lowest corp tax rates in the country.

Combine the legacy costs of the Big 3, union work salaries, higher average corp taxes from our gov't, great dependence on profits generated by larger less gas efficient vehicles and bad trade policies with other countries and it all adds up to a great disadvantage to foreign competiton.

Builder I agree with you but i would like to point out that most southern states where they build autmotive plants not only charge lower corporate tax but in fact actually charge no corporate tax for several year in an effort to draw them to their state. I have heard of some healthy bond issues to raise money to help company's and that includes automotive factories with the purchase of land or to get water, sewage etc to the land the company has purchases.

 

[toy]

Builder I agree with you about the government contributing greatly to the crisis that we are in today.

 

[toy]

Builder I agree with you but i would like to point out that most southern states where they build autmotive plants not only charge lower corporate tax but in fact actually charge no corporate tax for several year in an effort to draw them to their state. I have heard of some healthy bond issues to raise money to help company's and that includes automotive factories with the purchase of land or to get water, sewage etc to the land the company has purchases.

I agree with you about these incentives I remember reading about it in the newspaper and hearing it on the news when it happened.

 

[Builder]

Builder I agree with you but i would like to point out that most southern states where they build autmotive plants not only charge lower corporate tax but in fact actually charge no corporate tax for several year in an effort to draw them to their state. I have heard of some healthy bond issues to raise money to help company's and that includes automotive factories with the purchase of land or to get water, sewage etc to the land the company has purchases.

Heck yeah! I heard Texas has no tax for corporations and many companies that were located in Ohio have closed and actually have beaten a path to Texas.

 

[gemini5362]

This is what I have been trying to say all along in this thread. The problems we are facing in this nation now are not from one particular cause. You cannot point to one industry and say that this group in that industry are doing fine and this other group is going under because of one thing. There are a lot of variables. Tax rates, no taxes, incentives for moving to an area that include cash payouts or free land. Consumers that buy cars that are overpriced or under engineered. Investors that have a certain level of return or they refuse to invest any more funds in a company. Bad management decisions. Bad union decisions. Banks that allow loans to people that should not have them. Take your pick of any of the above, all the above or any new ones that you can think of. The problems we are seeing today have been a long time getting here they did not happen overnight and they are not going to be fixed overnight. There is one thing I am sure of. Everyone that is involved in our problems. Which I think is everyone. Is going to have to be willing to feel a bit of pain before it can get better. Some have already started feeling it. People who have invested in the stock market are feeling it. People who have paid too much for a house are feeling it. I sincerely hope that the one thing the new president does is let people who have made bad investment decisions pay the consequences. I also hope that any taxpayer money that he agrees to let be used for a bailout comes with some big strings attached. I would like to see major reorginization in a company before they get taxpayer money. New upper management. I am sorry but if you are the CEO of a company that has lost so much money that the taxpayer has to bail you out. That company needs someone new at the helm. If you want hourly workers to take concessions everyone takes them across the board. If after you have pay cuts managers have bonuses that allow them to make more if the company does well and comes back, hourly workers need to have some type of bonus incentive that does the same thing. Everyone has a stake in the company staying afloat. Make the cuts and the bonuses available to everyone.

I worked for a steel mill that had a good bonus system. When steel was made that met all the specs and did not have to be reworked that amount of tonage was recorded. at the end of the month those were totaled up. The company had a break even point. I think it was 13,000 tons if that much perfect steel was made they broke even. above that started getting to bonuses. the bonuses were tiered since the more made the more profit. I am not positive about these numbers but they give the idea. at 15,000 tons the bonus was 1.00 per ton at 17,000 the bonuse was 2.25 per ton at 19,000 it was 3.50 a ton at 21,000 it was 4.75 at 23,000 it was 6.00 at 25,000 it was 7.50 at 27,000 it was 9.75. I am sure those numbers are not right but it was along those lines with progressive increases. Managers got a bonus based on profits. The employees had an incentive to do quality work and get out a quality product. Managers had an incentive to minimize costs while still getting out a quality product. Everyone won by just getting out a quality product at the cheapest amount invested in it.