Golden has one heck of a tumur.

[dmccarty]

Radman,

The lab results FINALLY got back and things make a bit more sense....

Different people where telling us that the tumor was different sizes. No we know
why.

Apparenty the tumor, or at least part of it, is dying. Don't know if that is a
good thing or a bad thing.

The report came back with "Liver (one specimen): diffuse necrosis" and
"Liver (one specimen): Carcinoma"

"The majority of one specimen is necrotic. Remaining viable tissue contains
remnants of liver parenchyma"

"The second specimen consisits of collagenous fibrous tissue with remnants of
liver parenchyma. There is also portions of a mass composed of oval to
polygonal cells arranged in densely packed clusters and lobular aggregates.
The cells have distinct cell borders with abundant amounts of finely vacuolated
eosinophilic cytoplasm. Nuclei are round to oval with a coarsely reticular
chromatin pattern and small nucleoli. Mitotic figures are uncommon."

The wife has talked to the vets but I don't think she has gotten to talk with the
cancer specialist. Some talk of taking her to the NC State vet school to
participate in a program. The chemo that is being talked about at this point lasts
four-five months.

Any advice?

Thanks Again,
Dan McCarty

 

[Anonymous Poster]

This is a very personal choice. I'm sure most of use would respect whatever decision you make. If you don't want to know about mine stop reading.

I once was offered the prospect of chemotherapy for a dog by a vet. I told him "No. I will take him home and let him enjoy the time he has left. When he isn't enjoying life any more I'll call you to put him down."

All I can think of is how bad everybody I know who has had chemotherapy feels because of it. How is your dog going to understand what you're putting him through? And the payoff of chemotherapy on a sick 10 year old dog is not likely to be much time.

 

[Bird]

Ribintropfen, are you trying to start a big controversy?/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif I know there are some strong opinions both ways, but personally, I agree with you. The loss would be tough, but the alternative isn't easy either.

But of course, my personal opinions are frequently not with the majority either, because I feel the same way for myself as I do for my dog. In fact, I think the best doctor in the nation is in prison in Michigan.

 

[dmccarty]

RubinTropfen,

It depends on the treatment. Not all chemo is bad. Chase had some tumurs a few
years ago that required surgery and chemo. The survery was worse than the chemo.
The combination certainly allowed her to live a couple more years. The chemo that
we are talking about at the moment only lasts about five months. The vet said that
most dogs handle the chemo real well so we shall see.

On the other hand I have known people whose dogs have been put through hell with
treatments. We won't do that. The first information that we had on this whole mess
is that the dog might have four to eight months to live. I'm still not sure if that
information is still valid at this point. Just have to wait and see....

Its a question that is tough to answer either way. And I think by and large most
people treat our dogs/pets better than people sometimes. I watched my wifes
grandfather take a good seven days to die and it was not pleasent. If he had been
a dog he would have been put out of his misery far sooner.....

Makes you wonder sometimes....

Later...
Dan

 

[Anonymous Poster]

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr>

are you trying to start a big controversy?

<hr></blockquote>



Nope. Just trying to provide the advice that dmccarty asked for. I've been down the road of paying more than $10,000 to keep a dog alive against all odds, good sense, and, to my current way of thinking, good taste.

Everyone must decide for themselves, in spite of whatever advice they receive. My vote is that we should be both sane, and humane.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

It sounds like you are doing your homework on how bad the treatment will be, and how good the prognosis will be afterwards. I wish you the best of luck in this difficult time.

 

[MDNY]

Dan,

All I can say is that we all come to the crossroads in life and we must decide which way is best. Not all roads seem like the right one when we start down them, but soon things turn out for the best.

With that said my feeling is it doesn't matter the cost, it doesn't matter the time I take from my job (as long as I don't lose it) I will care for my four legged (or less) kids like nothing else on this planet. My feeling has always been I will what ever it takes as long as it is best for the animal, and not me. I won't keep my beloved pet alive for my personal gains, but if it affords them a few more days, months or years of life (without pain) and they can enjoy it then I will do it.

You have friends here. Most of us will never meet, but we know the people we are by what we say and don't say.

 

[MDNY]

Bird,

You are correct sir, you are correct. The good Doctor is wasting away for doing what man has not courage to do. Treat another human being with dignity and humanity.

My wife has commented before how the Vetrinary oath is all about the owner and nothing about he animal. Many many years ago she worked in a vets office, and people would bring in perfectly healthy animals to be killed, because the kids were bored,, they didn't have time for them etc. What a waste. We rescued our cat from a shelter and are looking to adopt after we settle into the house. Just sad how humans cannot treat all the same.

 

[radman]

I see you got back the path results. The part of the tumor with necrosis is not surprising. As the tumor (cancer) out grows its blood supply, some parts will die and undergo necrosis (death). These areas are difficult to classify because all the tissue is dying. The second biopsy result is carcinoma. That is your cancer. Carcinoma is a somewhat general term for a broad group of cancers. Pathologically they are unable to classify it as to where it came from. Not necessarily important, but if it can be more specifically classified, sometimes a more specific chemo regime can be utilized. The descriptor " The second specimen consists of ...... " is the pathologist merely flexing his mental muscle. However, the sentence " Mitotic figures are uncommon" is interesting. This implies that the cancer may be slow growing.

What to do? The decisions get more difficult. From an objective viewpoint the outlook (prognosis) is poor.
The chance of cure is slim to none. How long your pet will live is difficult to predict. Maybe a few months to over a year. With chemo, probably longer. A slow growing tumor longer, a fast growing tumor shorter. How the tumor and your pet interact in the next 1-3 months may give a better idea.

A Dr. friend of mine was just diagnosed this week with "adenocarcinoma" of the liver. Just retired 2 weeks ago. He is hopeful but realistic. I see people with new findings of cancer nearly daily. It becomes much more difficult and personal when it is a loved one or freind.
Some cancers have tremendous results with chemo and/or radiation. Cures and/or a greatly prolonged lifespan can be obtain with some cancers. Unfortately, carcinoma is a poor prognosis. Talk with the cancer specialist (oncologist) and make them be upfront with you. Make them realistically tell you what the outlook is with chemo, explain the side-effects, costs, time involved and what to expect. With good information you will make the right decision for you and your dog. The decision is really yours and the oncologist should respect your rights and decision. Remember, if you decide on chemo it can be stopped if you don't like how it is going.
Hope I have been able to give you some explanation and direction. The journey will be not be easy but let me know if I can help.

 

[dmccarty]

Radman,

Thanks for the info, its greatly appreciated! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I'll forward your
note to my wife. The Ocologist we need to talk to was gone last week
so we are waiting to hear what he has to say. If Chase has no chance even
with chemo then its a done deal and we will let her have whatever time she
has left. She is finally bouncing back from the operation. We have her on
a special diet but she has really thinned down. I'm hoping she can gain
back some weight.... But she is running around and jumping up on the couch
just like she always has. She shouldn't be on the couch but she likes to
sleep up there in the cold months. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Thanks Again,
Dan McCarty