Goodbye Kubota, hello EarthForce

MChalkley · Jan 8, 2002

Re: EarthForce EF-5 update!

Well, I officially broke the EF-5 in today! With all the snow, rain, and slush we've gotten here lately, things are pretty messy. I was "Brush Bruting" down by the river and got into a marshy area, and trying to push over/pull up a 4" holly at the same time. Next thing I knew, the rear axle was on the ground! Fortunately, I was able to put it in low range, set the hand throttle to about 1/3 throttle to make the wheels turn very slowly, then spin around and lift/push myself out with the backhoe. It was pretty exciting there for a couple minutes, though. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Unfortunately, I didn't have the camera with me...

Yesterday, I helped a friend set a commercial heat pump. Supposedly the new one weighed a little under 600 pounds and the old one somewhat more. The pad was over behind a 5 foot tall brick wall, and the loader wouldn't reach far enough past it, so I had to use the backhoe (and the eye ring D&E welded on the end of the quick-attach). Even at full extension, I couldn't tell they were even there - it handled them effortlessly. I expected it to, because it's supposed to be able to lift 1500+ pounds at full extension, but it was nice to see it in action, not just on paper.

HR_Mutt · Jan 9, 2002

Re: EarthForce EF-5 update!

<font color=blue> but it was nice to see it in action, not just on paper. </font color=blue> Sounds like a couple "kodak moments".
<font color=blue>Unfortunately, I didn't have the camera with me...</font color=blue>You're going to have to share some cab space with a camera Mark..Maybe it would lead to a revolutionary ChalkleyCam/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif
regards
Mutt

MossRoad · Jan 9, 2002

Re: EarthForce EF-5 update!

See, that heads up display that I suggested long ago could have had digital video capture/w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif.

We have had very little tractor weather here. Just warm and more rain predicted. Nice to see you got to test it a little more.

MDNick · Jan 10, 2002

Re: EarthForce EF-5 update!

I know!!!! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

One of the EF-5 enhancements yet to be mentioned.

A WEBCAM! That would be so /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif. Common Mark, just think how much the rest of us would enjoy it. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif We would get to see the EF-5 in action. And we could all dream that one day we too might have as nice a toy . . . uh tool.

MChalkley · Jan 10, 2002

Re: EarthForce EF-5 update!

Nick - I'm afraid that's a bit beyond my abilities. Remember, I'm the one that couldn't even get my digital camera to produce movies less than 2 mb in size... /w3tcompact/icons/blush.gif

Of course, if I put a low-resolution camera on the front and another one on the back right under the canopy overhang were the worklights are, hooked them up to a cell-phone, well, who knows? /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif

Still, I wouldn't want to do anything that would keep you guys from going ahead and getting your own. If you could "ride along with me", you might have less reason to buy one... I'm hoping that before too long, there will be at least two of us on TBN that own EarthForce machines. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

MossRoad · Jan 10, 2002

Re: EarthForce EF-5 update!

Do you want some help with the digital camera movies? I can try. e-mail me if you want. We'll get it figured out. I want to see video of this machine in action./w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif

MChalkley · Jan 11, 2002

Re: EarthForce EF-5 update!

MossRoad - I'll take another movie or two, then see what I've got. I upgraded to QT Player Pro for $25, but that doesn't seem to be able to do what I wanted it to. I'm not about to spend $150 to go all the way to the top of the line QT product. I mean, I like you guys and all, but I gotta draw the line somewhere... /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

MChalkley · Jan 14, 2002

Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

The HST transmission discussion that Harv started got me to thinking about the way the pump/motor combination in the EF-5 works and doing a little testing to check it a little more thoroughly. I got some interesting results.

First, I went to an area with really good well drained soil and tried pushing over some big stuff with the Brush Brute. On one occasion, when pushing into a 4" holly tree, I couldn't get the wheels to spin at all when I was trying to lift the tree to pull it out of the ground at the same time. I guess I had so much weight on the front axle that neither axle could spin the tires, since the transfer case locks the two together. With the pedal to the metal, wide open throttle, nothing whatsoever happened. I assume the HST pump and/or motor relief valves were popping, of course, but nothing moved. I only held it there for a couple seconds, of course, since this is a new machine. And I was able to back up, move around to the other side of the tree and push it over/pull it up out of the ground from the other side.

In a very different test scenario, I put the 1.5 cu. yd. (struck) high-capacity bucket on, and went down to the gravel pile. I was able to push gravel around and lift heaping buckets of the stone (shh - don't tell anyone - I'm not supposed to be using the high-capacity bucket for stone) easily. It lifted the heaped high-capacity bucket to full height, which is a lot higher than my L4310 loader would, and I was able to drive it around that way, though I wouldn't, except on the flattest of terrain - the back end was noticeably lighter, so I'm sure it could've tipped forward under certain circumstances (and with the bucket 10 feet up in the air, it would be some tip!). Wheel slip was minimal when pushing all that stone around, much less than with the L4310HST in 4wd (and pushing much less stone, obviously), though I'm not sure why (I had a lot better tires on the L4310), unless it's got something to do with the limited-slip differentials. At the same time, I've noticed that in certain circumstances the limited-slip feature doesn't work as well as I'd like it to, but I expect they'll improve as they wear in.

I also noticed that shifting on the fly from normal range to low range works quite well. Low range in the EF-5 is just a solenoid that locks the motor in maximum displacement mode, so it's producing maximum torque and minimum speed for whatever flow and pressure the pump is giving it. This worked really well in the circumstances that I found myself constantly shifting the range selector on the L4310. For example, when moving stone, I would pull up to the pile in high or medium range, stop, change to low range, dig into the pile, back out of the pile, stop, switch back to high or medium range, and go. With the EF-5, the range selector switch is on the shuttle shift direction lever located where a car turn signal lever would be. Centered is neutral, you push it forward to go forward, back to go backward, up (toward the steering wheel ring) to go into low range, and back down to go to normal range. (Pushing it in toward the steering column beeps the front and rear horns, but that's another story...) So, with the EF-5, I pull up to the pile, dropping it into low range when the bucket hits the pile, push into the pile, then start backing out, switching to normal range whenever the load is low enough that it seems appropriate, sometimes while I'm still backing up, other times after I've started forward. As I've mentioned before, I miss the higher top speed of the L4310, but I think overall I'll save more time not ever having to stop to change ranges than I'm losing to the lower top speed - it's not that often that I'm able to run at top speed anyway.

It's definitely some learning curve though - getting used to the difference in visibility, loader controls, etc. I'd forgotten how much had become "second nature" in operating the L4310.

MossRoad · Jan 14, 2002

Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

I take it you travel great distances with your bucket loaded. When I was operating my IH2500b, I rarely used the high range, except for normal transporting of the unit around the property. I always used the low range when working piles or excavating. This was recommended in the operator's manual. Is it harder on the unit to use high range when transporting a heavy load or is the unit just so robust that it doesn't affect it?

MChalkley · Jan 14, 2002

Re: EarthForce EF-5 usage report

Yeah, quite frequently. Often, it's just a full bucket of mulch, compost, or topsoil.

As to whether it's harder on the unit or not to run it in high range, I'm sure it's technically harder on it, but with HST transmissions, if it'll do it without overheating, you're not going to hurt it. Basically, heat, dirt, and lack of lubrication are the only enemies of an HST system. If the hydraulic oil is clean the system is protected from physical damage due to abrasion. And if it's not overheating, it's not working harder than it's capable of running continuously. Is it wearing faster at high load than it is in low load conditions? Sure. But since the odds are it's going to outlast the rest of the machine anyway, it's not practical to be concerned about it.

If you look at the specs for pumps and motors, you'll usually find that they're rated to last at least 1000 hours at their maximum output, at maximum bearing load, maximum everything. That's a long, long time for a piece of equipment. And the percentage of time they're run at maximums is very, very low. So, realistically, an HST system is going to die from abrasion and general wear long before it dies from extremes.

Now, there are other factors that can greatly accellerate wear, such as pump cavitation which causes the pump to run without lubrication, and that's why it's so important to warm systems up, especially in cold weather, before using them hard - and why I like to use synthetics in them.