Goodbye Kubota, Hello Power Trac

[gordon]

Mark something tells me that if we got together and even tried to discuss tractor price, we would both come out bloody and no closer to each others numbers than when we started. Just two different styles of price bickering thats all./w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Never said even swap.---

Backhoe heck ya my mouth has been watering for one as well. So it sure does sound like you've got what I want in the total package--only one kicker, just bought my 4310 a couple of months back. Had the price set since last winter on it. So I'll be keeping her for a few years at least, unless something drastic happens.

As I said before, whoever ends up with your Kubota will have the Killer Kubota hands down. Best of add-ons, best of hydraulics, best of tires, best of care since new. As I said the total package in a 4310.

Mark I think that your 4310 might just have Glenn's name on it. That is what he really needs---the total package that is.

Oh yea one last item I forgot to address in my first post. Power trac is crazy not to get you on board as some sort of a rep/field tester. The way you can get your point across be it good or bad is their loss.

Good luck--paint never really does match you know
Gordon

 

[MChalkley]

Rat - Hydraulic system efficiency varies tremendously depending on the components and plumbing. Remember, HST CUT's are powered by a single pump, a single motor, plus the differential gearing. And we know what they will do. On the other hand, despite the additional losses of the diff in the CUT version of HST's, the diff does multiply the torque. As for the PT, it uses a single pump of the same type (piston), and 4 wheel motors of a different type (gerotor). Typically, gerotor motors don't have the efficiency of piston motors, but they have more torque at lower rpms. The specific type of gerotor motors used in the PT have a patented internal design said to allow them to approach the efficiency of piston motors. I don't know whether they do or don't, but they do have much better pressure handling ability and torque than other motors of the same type and displacement, which is a pretty good indicator. I didn't have any problem doing anything I wanted to do in the test drives. For example, I drove one with a full bucket load of dirt and a backhoe on the back up a steep enough spoil pile that I quit before it did.

Pushing into dirt and rock piles with it was deceptive. It doesn't readily spin the tires, but it keeps pushing. In talking with one of the engineers, he said "People sometimes want to know if we'll 'up the pressure' so it will spin the tires" (I had the feeling he thought he might be anticipating me) but we always say "Why do you want to spin the tires - there's more efficient ways of digging holes. What you want to do is get the job done without spinning the tires." My philosophy, as you know, has always been that if I could spin the tires, I knew I was getting all the power to the ground that the machine was capable of using. Their philosophy certainly works, though, and it may work better than mine - we'll see. At the very least, I'll have to rethink my way of determining how much power is available, because the PT is designed to not spin the tires.

MarkC

 

[MChalkley]

Gordon - Sorry, you're right - you never said "even". I knew you hadn't said that - just typed it that way.

I think Glenn wants a Power Trac. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Thanks for the kind words. I had hopes that we might work something out as far as a sales position was concerned, but they're happy with the way things are, I guess. If that's the case, you certainly can't fault them for "staying the course". My opinion is quite different, but mine has the disadvantage of not counting. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Still, you never know how things will turn out.

MarkC

 

[glennmac]

Gordon and Mark,

If you guys havent been talking swap+cash, perhaps you should be. I start from a two principles: (1) there is no one who has admired Mark's customizations more than Gordon, and (2) Mark may have a significantly more difficult time selling his rig for value because of the customizations. I, for example, would place no value on many of the admittedly clever enhancements, nor do I want a 4n1 bucket, etc.

If Mark took Gordon's almost new 4310, he might have a much easier and quicker time selling it than his custom rig. Gordon, on the other hand, may be one of the few potential customers who would value essentially all the customizations. Cash would have to flow one way or the other, too, depending on what equipment changes hands and how you see value.

Just trying to play Dolly (the matchmaker, not the cloned sheep).

 

[JATO_RaT]

Mark, help me out with the term "CUTS". I do agree with you whole heartedly about the spin/no spin ability. If anything, its better not to have to spin a tire. I used to drive CAT articulating loaders, 900 series (odd driving at first because of the cab pointing one way while the front end loader pointing another). They were very difficult to spin a tire on with what I believe was a torque converter design yet, even the 4 yd bucket would go right into a pile of dirt, rock, etc, fairly easy. The gear drives I use will spin a tire in a split second. The ineviatable jarring and hop are the result for me in high traction areas. The problem is worse with a set of R1's or the equivalent. I have looked at the Power-Trac site many times especially when Willingtonpizza mentioned it awhile back. There still is no info on the 65HP model. When looking at the 45 HP, some things that turned me off either because of a lack of information on my part or looking at the pictures they show on the site. The biggest was the small tires on the 45HP. Like I said, it could be deceiving and only appear that way. I should get my info soon although they had none on the 2465. I still am in a position to consider one as I have not yet purchased the L48 or 4610 that Kubota makes. Since so much of what I do is loader/boxscraper work, I still think the L48 is my best option. I like the L48 over the 4610 because of the loader and overall thicker, beefier construction. I am certainly open minded though and consider your choice bold given the extrordinary design compared to the standard. You know, Kubota makes articulating loaders, whether they oscillate, I'm not sure, but can see where it is a huge bonus, very big. Another tractor I looked at was JCB that has the ability to steer in 3 different ways. Front wheels only, front/rear turning the same direction and front/rear opposite of each other.

I can certainly understand your enthusiasm for a well built, tank like structure with a new twist on compact tractor design. Much of the Vermeer equipment is built heavy duty like that. It is how I would be building something if I were to do it. I hope my info and video comes soon, Thanks, Rat...

 

[MChalkley]

Rat,

CUT's is just an acronym for Compact Utility Tractors.

I think the tires appear a lot smaller than they are because of their position on the tractor and the size of the tractor. The tires on the 2445 are bigger than they look. They're obviously smaller than the typical back tires on a CUT, but they're all quite a bit bigger (wider, anyway)than the typical front tires, for example. Overall, especially given the normal usage of a tractor with a loader on it, the larger front tires are a much greater advantage than any potential disadvantage in smaller ones on the back, in my opinion.

I've looked at the JCB's, too. They're definitely interesting, but they don't have hydro. I'd be looking at them still if they did.

MarkC

 

[kcook]

Mchalkley,
Do you have any power problems. I mean is you only have one range unlike a CUT that may have 2 or more range's?
Kevin

 

[MChalkley]

Kevin - No, no less power, as far as I could tell test driving them - it's a totally different design. Normal HST's have 2 or more ranges, partly because they use piston motors which have a much higher rpm range. (Actually, it's the other way around: Piston motors are used because they have higher rpm ranges and can therefore be easily substituted in the differential/axle arrangement used in CUTs.) They usually run best at speeds over 500 rpm, depending upon the design, whereas the gerotor type motors used on the wheels of the Power Trac won't run any faster than 100 rpm. An advantage with the wheel motor arrangement is that full torque is available all the time without having to switch to Low range. A disadvantage is that they have lower overall top speed than most CUTs - about 12mph on the 2445 and 10 mph on the 2465.

MarkC

 

[kcook]

Mark, I take it by your posting that you have not had a chance to us one at home. Let me know how it works and what attachments you purchased.
Kevin

 

[MChalkley]

Kevin - I've only used them on Power Trac's factory test lot. As I said in my original post, I'm not in a position to be able to buy one until my Kubota sells. But I'll certainly keep everyone posted as to what I get and how it works out.

MarkC