Got Ambushed Last Night and Shot!

[Soundguy]

Exact same thing that I've heard.. when the situation warrants it.. a double tap to center .. then check.. if the attack is continuing.. then fire more shots.. keep applying this rule till the attack stops.. then call for help. My handgun instructor was a police trainer / nra certified.. sounds like his advice is 'common' to what others have reported in handgun training courses.. etc. IMHO.. it's good advice.

soundguy

The use of potentially lethal force is still an issue even in self defense friendly states. If you are in fear of your life (a situation where a prudent individual would reasonably expect to be in danger of bodily harm) then it is prudent to use your weapon to defend yourself.

You DO NOT employ your weapon with the intent to kill the attacker. If you have no other reasonable alternative you use your weapon to stop the attack. All the concealed carry courses of which I am aware teach their students to fire two shots into the "center of mass" and then evaluate if the attack has been stopped or not. If the attacker continues to advance and continues to pose a threat then further shots are reasonable and prudent. The best advice I have been given is that if a double tap to the center of mass doesn't stop the attack then put one between the mustache and the eyebrows.

It is not unreasonable in these times to expect to encounter a person on drugs that although mortally wounded by your double tap may still continue the attack and still pose a lethal threat. The attacker may die (later) from your double tap but could injure or kill you or a family member before ceasing to be a real danger. Hence the need to evaluate the results of the double tap and be ready to follow up with a round between the mustache and eyebrows.

Pat

 

[dmccarty]

I visit another website that is all about Disney and Orlando attractions.

They have a podcast and the people on the cast are mainly from NJ who have moved to Orlando. They had a Sky Is Falling moment a few months ago about gator attacks and the amoeba that is in the water of the south. The amoeba exists in warm water and if it gets into your brain it can kill you. Usually kids. But if you get the symptoms of the amoeba antibiotics are supposed to solve the problem.

The podcast was telling people to stay out of FLA lakes because of the gators and the amoeba. It is just not worth the risk. They made it sound like if you touched lake water the wee little bug would run to your brain and kill you. If you got even closer to the water the gator's would just jump out and consume you.

Now one should be aware of gators and the amoeba. I certainly would be careful of which lake I swam in and only during the daylight hours. But to chicken little the threat is absurd.

It real interesting that the Podcast does not tell people to stay away from the beach since the sharks will get you. Not to mention sea lice, Portuguese Man O Wars and Jellyfish.

My point of all of this is that I think people have fears of the unknown. That unknown could be guns or gators or wee little beasties living in the water. And people can react in strange ways to their fears. And sometimes out of proportion to the threat. Don't go swimming in a fresh water lake because a gator might get you but its ok to go to Daytona Beach for a swim with the sharks an 'cuddas.

Later,
Dan

 

[patrick_g]

Thanks for the kind words guys.

Something I forgot to say... In addition to legal considerations there are philosophical issues regarding moral and ethical considerations. If there is no situation under which you would feel justified in taking a human life then you are not a candidate for self defense weapons.

In a REAL situation with the excitement, adrenaline, and such you will be at best no more than 1/2 as good as you are at the range. You can not count on shooting to wound. You may have the best of intentions but a little loss of accuracy on your part due to stress and or your target moves and suddenly your best intentions of JUST LIGHTLY wounding either goes astray and the attacker is mortally wounded or you miss and he kills you.

It comes down to having to accept responsibility for killing a person. Many folks believe there are situations under which that is morally and ethically justifiable. Would a teacher with a concealed carry have been justified in stopping the Columbine massacre? Are you willing to let an attacker kill you or a family member rather than kill him? That is your decision to make and I also respect those who would rather be killed than kill even though it is not my personal situation.

A person with a concealed self defense weapon should not have to make long drawn out mental moral arguments with himself while under attack. Your decisions need to be pre-made. Your own personal "line in the sand" needs to be well drawn in advance of any need to use it. Up to a given point as the "bad guy" approaches your line in the sand you are aware and paying attention but not drawing your weapon. As the line is closely approached you prepare to draw. If the attacker crosses the line there is no further internal philosophical debate, you do the best you can to follow your training and put two quick shots to center of mass and evaluate the need for follow up shot(s). If the situatioin warrants it and the attacker is not armed with a long range weapon (gun or similar) just pulling and aiming your weapon may stop the attack but you are on shaky ground as it takes little time for someone to close a gap of several feet and you have to be VERY ALERT AND READY TO FIRE.

Pat

 

[zzvyb6]

Hey Pit:

I personnally love my paranoia, I walk differently now that I am prepared. I'll bet you don't even have fire drills in schools there. However comma, our county jail has more violent criminals that your whole town (pop 3200), the Detroit major himself just got out of jail. The only crimes reported in Pine Island were someone stole some toothpicks from Wally's Cheese Mart, a stranger didn't replace a divot at the golf course, and that Pine Island has been found to not be an island.

Practise makes perfect.

If the Oprah/Obama/Streisand clan votes in Reparations, I'm sure we can send some recipients your way. I'll be interest in seeing how many of you roll over and play dead. That may be your only option...

 

[patrick_g]

If the Oprah/Obama/Streisand clan votes in Reparations, I'm sure we can send some recipients your way. I'll be interest in seeing how many of you roll over and play dead. That may be your only option...

"PLAYING" may not be an option. Just rolling over and BEING DEAD!

Pat

 

[unreconstructed]

Well, like another poster, I have an affinity for an 870 slug gun with buck shot. What does that do to you in court? You can't say you tried to wound the threat for obvious reasons.

 

[Soundguy]

It says to me that you were trying to defend yourself from serious bodily harm from an attacker that would not yeild. After all .. why didn't the attacker stop and run when you racked the slide on the pump-gun. That's got to be a burglers worst fear.. hearing a shotgun slide rack while they are walking across your living room in the dark with a pillowcase full of your valuables... and well it should be!

soundguy

 

[unreconstructed]

And I can tell you it works Soundguy. Years back when the kids were little we were camping up close to Ruidoso NM--family minding our own business. Things have changed up there through the years as it has everywhere. Anyhow sometime after midnight someone drove up in a pickup, music blaring. Some guys I think obviously drunk. They sit there not far from our tent for a long time. Someone got out. I told the wife to keep the kids low on the ground--gave the truck a warning to move on but no good. Cranked a round in the 870 and was going to lay down grazing fire if they kept coming. They hauled @#$. I stayed up the rest of the night. We packed up and left at daylight. The rest of our camping trips were very, very tactical. No more public grounds. No more trouble either.
I have had MOUT training and the usual infantry battle drills but never been in combat. Guess it was not meant to be. Anyhow, I always wonder, and still do, if I could pull the trigger. That night with my little ones involved, I was a hair from letting her rip. I know I would have pulled the trigger that night and I am glad it did not happen.

My wife had a similar experience by the side of the road vehicle broke down with the kids. Couple of guys tried to break into the car. She warned them off with the 1911 and lucky for all they hooked it. No doubt in my mind she would have killed them had they not backed off.

 

[Soundguy]

If you told them to leave, and they kept coming.. tells me they were up to no good.

Good thing you had a means to defend yourself and your familly.. no telling what could have happened.

Soundguy

 

[Dargo]

In a REAL situation with the excitement, adrenaline, and such you will be at best no more than 1/2 as good as you are at the range.

I don't think most people not constantly drilled in these situations would be even close to half as good. I have way more than a hundred firearms and have qualified 'expert' for years with a sidearm. I never could make 'distinguished expert' because of my inability to score rapidly with my weak side drills. Anyway, when I tried once to pass a 'stress' situation drill that included proper target choices (hit or don't hit targets) under varying light conditions with people shouting and other noise I failed miserably. For some reason I liked to shoot at any target presented; which is not good, and I also sprayed bullets everywhere.

My son, who has a couple of years training in these drills in the military, performed much better than me in the stress conditions but I can out-shoot him with both sidearms and rifles at the range. I guess I'm too old and my nerves get too rattled to be worth a hoot in a high stress conditions. Because of this fact, I opt to carry a semi auto rather than a six shooter if I'm packing. I figure I would need the extra tries if I ever had to use a sidearm, which I never have fortunately. Hopefully the original poster heals completely and the criminal is removed from society for a long, long time. I personally don't ever want to have to see if I can react properly if literally under fire.