Got Ambushed Last Night and Shot!

[Soundguy]

What I was trying to say if that if one is using a scattergun with buck shot in close quarters, one is obviously intending to kill. .

Actually.. I believe your intent would be to 'stop the attack'.. if the attacker dies.. it's his own doing.. he had the option of NOT breaking the law, and NOT attacking you, forcing you to defend yourself... The attacker put you in a bad position..... he forced your hand... You have a right life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.. so long that it does not infringe on someone else's rights... he was attempting to infringe on your right to life.

As I've hear dthe say... 'your rights stop where my nose begins'..

soundguy

 

[Rara Avis]

I hope if people intend to use deadly force for self defense that they know the law of their state. It would be a real shame to go to jail for protecting yourself or your family. Also for people who don't want to use deadly force there are non lethal defensive weapons which while not perfect can be very effective like pepper spray and tazer. You need to know the laws for the use of these too.

Chris

Taser Suffers a Rare Loss in Court - The Lede - Breaking News - New York Times Blog

List of Taser Deaths Over the Past Two Months

Seems you might as well shoot him with firearm and claim that you feared for your life...

 

[gemini5362]

Self defense weapons in the hands of a trained user are a reasonable and prudent response to the reality of the present state of our civilization. Lots of folks do not use seat belts, demonstrating their lack of care for their own well being. Likewise, motorcycle helmets. Laws have been passed to enforce their use. So far there are no laws forcing private citizens to have or carry weapons for self defense. Some of us live in areas where we are ALLOWED to posses and carry weapons for self defense. The second amendment to the constitution of the U.S.A. guarantees the right to keep and BEAR ARMS. The Supreme Court of the U.S.A. has ruled that the second amendment is as the founding fathers intended, a PERSONAL INDIVIDUAL right.

Pat

Actually Pat I am going to disagree with you on this one. I am not too sure of the name of the town but I believe it was a small town in georgia. Right after Morton Grove, Illinois passed their law to outlaw handguns this town passed a law that required every male citizen over the age of 21 to own a handgun. They built in all kinds of reasons for getting an exemption and it was kind of a spoof of Morton Grove but they did pass the law that you had to have a handgun if you lived in that town

 

[gemini5362]

This is turning into an interesting thread. I have to laugh when I see pat talk about being prepared. I have seen what he considers prepared. Pat is prepared for everything short of the second coming and he might be prepared for that too. We have just never talked about it. I have had military training also. I carried a weapon on ships that were carrying nuclear weapons and we had training for that. Althoug I will admit that pistol qualifications involved shooting at the water and if you hit it you qualified. Of course when you are a few hundred miles from land that qulification is not hard to make. We did qualify when in port at a range though. I have had my share of incidents. When I was 14 I shot a burglar. I know what I will do in those circumstances. Luckily for the burglar and me I was young and the only gun I had handy was a 410 with bird shot. It would have been worse but he heard the gun slide rack and ran out the door and was running down the road. It is amazing how fast some people can run when you are fixing to shoot them. I shot he screamed and ran faster. I let it go at that and he never came back. When the fall came and I was back in school one of the guys that had a reputation had a bunch of interesting scars on the back of his neck There was a big bunch of small round scars. I never asked about them he didnt volunteer any information and no one ever came back to the house to break in again.

In todays climate if he had went to the police I might have gone to jail. A few years ago I would have for sure. In Arkansas 10 years ago you had to prove you were as far from the point of entry as you could be if someone broke in. They had to have gone through three locked means of access, such as broke a window, kicked open a door and then kicked open your bedroom door. If you did not meet these requirements and you shot them you went to jail. You might not be prosecuted and you probably would not be found guilty if you were justified but you had to pay for an attorney and bail bondsmen just the same. With the concealed carry laws they have changed a lot of that to where you just have to worry about being justified.

 

[Dargo]

The reason for the yelling/screaming, noise and lights is because they are distracting and very likely to be found at the type of critical incidents being discussed. The purpose is to teach focus and control. Focus on what needs to be done, filter out what is not needed, try to keep calm in a not calm situation but at the same time not getting tunnel vision and missing the second threat off to your right.

Yes, I agree. I'm a walking talking example of how your example holds true. Even during timed portions of qualifying at the range I still perform reasonably well. Perhaps that is a direct result of practicing such. The huge 'however' is that I was terrible in the situation I attempted competing in that involved all the above that I mentioned in my last post. I assume that I'd improve if I drilled frequently in such conditions but I also don't doubt that I would still suck in comparison to the range and, perhaps even more important, that skills I may gain in such conditions would quickly erode over time if I ceased that sort of training. It was quite humbling to get my report card telling me that I not only wasted loads of ammo, but also just about every 'friendly' that was in my vicinity.

 

[Soundguy]

Actually Pat I am going to disagree with you on this one. I am not too sure of the name of the town but I believe it was a small town in georgia. Right after Morton Grove, Illinois passed their law to outlaw handguns this town passed a law that required every male citizen over the age of 21 to own a handgun. They built in all kinds of reasons for getting an exemption and it was kind of a spoof of Morton Grove but they did pass the law that you had to have a handgun if you lived in that town

10ys ago.. a friend lived in borger texas.. sup[osedly there was a town ordanance basically that said every household had to have a gun it it.. if legal... I hear the crime rate for breaking and entering in that city could be counted on one hand.. every few years...

soudnguy

 

[CCWKen]

A gun shot wound is serious no matter where it is. Glad you made it through and able to talk about it.

It takes a deputy anywhere from 10 -30 minutes to respond to a call out here in the sticks but Texas is very understanding when it comes to protecting life and property (including personal property). More so now. You can use all force, including deadly force, necessary to "stop" the immanent (a cognition of) loss or injury. And there's no "duty" to retreat or suspend force once the force deemed to be necessary at the time of the threat has occured.

I'm always armed when I'm out of the house. Especially at night. Not so much for intruders but there's animals out here that will eat you and your stock if given the chance. Not to mention the critters with fangs.

Get well quick.

 

[patrick_g]

Actually Pat I am going to disagree with you on this one. I am not too sure of the name of the town but I believe it was a small town in georgia. Right after Morton Grove, Illinois passed their law to outlaw handguns this town passed a law that required every male citizen over the age of 21 to own a handgun. They built in all kinds of reasons for getting an exemption and it was kind of a spoof of Morton Grove but they did pass the law that you had to have a handgun if you lived in that town

I was bracing myself for some interesting revelation as of yet absolutely totally unexpected and then was both amused and relieved to find you had delicately reached in and teased out a minor part of my post which was just barely infringed on by a community making a humorous parody of another. Whew.... What a relief... and funny too. Thanks for keeping me honest and informed. I will restate my claim as FEW private citizens are required to be armed or own a gun in the U.S.A.

I once went to sea on a "Gator" for three days and two nights and while aboard witnessed the firearms quals (9mm semi-auto pistol) being conducted at the stern with miles of empty ocean as the safety backstop. Regulation targets were set up and regulation distances were marked off for the shooters. The seas were not rough but not dead calm either and I opined as to how it would have been interesting to have been allowed to participate during the undulating twisting motion.

Regarding comments about having a shotgun loaded with buckshot somehow making you more vulnerable in a self defense shoot. BALDERDASH, a shotgun is a prudent choice for home defense. Buckshot (00) is a decent choice of ammunition but #4 might be a better choice in many instances as it is less prone to over penetration. You don't want any errant pellets going through a wall to injure an innocent person or go out a window and hit a neighbor. (Reckless endangerment?)

It is prudent and commendable to have a shotgun for home defense. The fact that it is effective (potentially lethal) is part and parcel of it being a prudent choice.

Another alternative to buckshot and its potential for over penetration is fletchettes.

SDLLC 12 GA FLECHETTE SABOTS FOR SHOTGUN AMMUNITION RELOADING

The saboted fletchette rounds in 12 gauge are superior in performance to 00 buckshot for close range antipersonnel use and are not so prone to over penetration. Save your buckshot for deer (where and when legal.) If the attacker is so far away that flechettes are not effective then you may have a harder time convincing "the powers that be" that you were in fear for your life and needed to employ potentially deadly force.

Although you are not likely to be engaged in a protracted long range shootout using your home defense shotgun you can always load two rounds of fletchettes and then 00 buck ( I prefer 000) and if needed just "burn" the fletchettes to get to the long range. the fletchettes will keep their heads down while you are getting to your "long range rounds."

One of my shotguns is a Mossberg "street sweeper" with extended tube mag in 12 ga magnum chambering, pump action, pistol grip with no shoulder stock. MASSIVE FIREPOWER compared to any handgun that can actually be used effectively. I used to carry it slung muzzle down in the center of my back so as to not interfere with my fly fishing when fishing in Alaskan grizzly country. Never had to use it but it gave great comfort.

A suitable 12 ga shotgun for home defense can give great comfort and SHOULD NOT raise any issues regarding intent when employed in self defense. After all, we aren't attempting entrapment are we? Baiting would be thieves/assailants to break in and then be shot under the guise of self defense is an unlikely claim even for liberal jurisdictions.

If risking the intruders life is not acceptable to you then arm yourself with the grizzly bear country sized chemical sprays, not the lipbalm sized cute little keychain variety.

Pat

 

[pennwalk]

There has been a TON of discussion about home defense ammunition on the gun forums like The firing line. What I take away from it, backed up by the tests on The box o' truth site, is that the ammunition that will stop an intruder will penetrate walls and the ammunition that doesn't penetrate walls may not stop the intruder.

Chris

 

[unreconstructed]

Have not considered flechettes. Saved the site and will experiment with this at some point. The first two in the magazine with these rounds not a bad idea if inside one's house. Take the worry out of wall penetration. One would hope with a scattergun the third round would not be needed anyhow. You just never know.

I am sure it happens but do not see much of a need for long range engagements with criminal types. Perhaps with govenment agents one day when the day of confiscation comes but anyone who thinks they will survive such an event and live a long free life is deluding themselves.

Anyhow,thanks for the link to the flechettes. If cornered, I intend to shoot to kill, otherwise I had rather let the sheriff do the work.