Gov't mandates gas can flame arrestors.

aczlan · Feb 5, 2023

seijirou said:
I'd agree pouring gas on an open fire would be stupid, but pouring gas on what appears to be no fire at all is just a lack of knowledge. You can be the smartest most knowledgeable person on the planet and the the body of knowledge that you don't know will always be larger than the body you do.

That "darwin award" could be your young grandson trying to take initiative and help out when your back is turned for 10 seconds, that's all it takes. If the flame arrestors cause you problems filling or pouring then you're doing something wrong. I have cans with them from 70 years old to 2 years old wit them and they all fill and pour fine.

1. Why do you have a gas can anywhere near a fire where someone could make such a mistake?
2. Why has he not been taught the basics of fire safety? (ie: never put gasoline on any fire, only diesel or used oil)

We have a fair number of large bonfires every year and there is never a gas can out there. Always a gallon jug of used oil, some hay (to stuff in the pile and pour the oil onto) and a propane torch to light it with.

Aaron Z

honeoye · Feb 5, 2023

retiredIW said:
i took several tubeless tire valves, took out the stem drilled hole on plastic and metal cans several when empty of course, then stuck piece of tie wire through holes in can then through valve stem threaded end on first put kink in wire near base to guide through small drilled hole. Pulled into hole until it popped into place. removed wire of course placed valve cap and wallah non leaking vent. no engineers or congress to figure that out.

Tire valves contain rubber (not designed for contact with solvents) and gasoline will deteriorate the rubber over time. The gasoline container may have dissolved rubber and particles in in that could clog carburetors and the improperly designed vent may eventually leak.

cqaigy2 · Feb 5, 2023

aczlan said:
1. Why do you have a gas can anywhere near a fire where someone could make such a mistake?
2. Why has he not been taught the basics of fire safety? (ie: never put gasoline on any fire, only diesel or used oil)

We have a fair number of large bonfires every year and there is never a gas can out there. Always a gallon jug of used oil, some hay (to stuff in the pile and pour the oil onto) and a propane torch to light it with.

Aaron Z

Someone using a chainsaw near a bonfire. I know better then to do a second dowsing of gasoline, also that fumes are heavy and i wouldn't use gas anyway. But i don't use diesel, which i don't have, nor oil.

Nothing stopping you from trying to pass a law that mandates minimum education and certification, before one can buy and use a gas can. And be sure to come up with a funding source for said mandate, and you'll need inspectors to go around and make sure we all can show our gas can card. Or if you mean some "expert" should be around each time a new person goes to us a gas can, well that would be great, but not going to happen. There's no such thing as "common sense", it's information that you've been exposed to, not some genetically imprinted smarts.

not2old · Feb 5, 2023

I'm old and lazy. I use a tiger torch and a leaf blower for starting a fire. It's fast and easy, no gas can needed.

aczlan · Feb 5, 2023

cqaigy2 said:
Someone using a chainsaw near a bonfire. I know better then to do a second dowsing of gasoline, also that fumes are heavy and i wouldn't use gas anyway. But i don't use diesel, which i don't have, nor oil.

Nothing stopping you from trying to pass a law that mandates minimum education and certification, before one can buy and use a gas can. And be sure to come up with a funding source for said mandate, and you'll need inspectors to go around and make sure we all can show our gas can card. Or if you mean some "expert" should be around each time a new person goes to us a gas can, well that would be great, but not going to happen. There's no such thing as "common sense", it's information that you've been exposed to, not some genetically imprinted smarts.

Why would you do any dousing with gasoline? It flashes off very fast compared to other fuels, and it is risky.

My father in law got himself banned from starting bonfires (by his wife who would prefer that he not end up in the burn unit) after he used mixed gas to start a fire and just about turned himself into a human torch because it made a vapor cloud and the whole pile (10'x10'x10' or there about) went up when he tried to light it. He was lucky that he only lost his eyebrows and some of his hair.

I have known not to use gas since I was in the single digits for age, I have a relative who's face is messed up because he put dumped the last of the gas from a can into the burn barrel, walked the can a 15-20' away, lit the barrel, walked back to the can, picked it up and the can blew up.
Apparently he hadn't capped the can, the fumes made a trail in the air that the fire was able to follow right into the can.
Would this screen have saved him from that? Probably, but much like the question of starting to smoke or chew tobacco, with all we know of the dangers of doing so, why would you risk it?

Aaron Z

cqaigy2 · Feb 5, 2023

aczlan said:
Why would you do any dousing with gasoline? It flashes off very fast compared to other fuels, and it is risky.

My father in law got himself banned from starting bonfires (by his wife who would prefer that he not end up in the burn unit) after he used mixed gas to start a fire and just about turned himself into a human torch because it made a vapor cloud and the whole pile (10'x10'x10' or there about) went up when he tried to light it. He was lucky that he only lost his eyebrows and some of his hair.

I have known not to use gas since I was in the single digits for age, I have a relative who's face is messed up because he put dumped the last of the gas from a can into the burn barrel, walked the can a 15-20' away, lit the barrel, walked back to the can, picked it up and the can blew up.
Apparently he hadn't capped the can, the fumes made a trail in the air that the fire was able to follow right into the can.
Would this screen have saved him from that? Probably, but much like the question of starting to smoke or chew tobacco, with all we know of the dangers of doing so, why would you risk it?

Aaron Z

Because you don't know any better, so why would you nix something that possibly saved your FIL or your other relative? I'm curious though, what happened so that you knew by single digit age, not to use gasoline, and did you know why?

MossRoad · Feb 5, 2023

cqaigy2 said:
Because you don't know any better, so why would you nix something that possibly saved your FIL or your other relative? I'm curious though, what happened so that you knew by single digit age, not to use gasoline, and did you know why?

In my case it was because the fire department came to our classroom and gave a demonstration on gasoline fumes. They had a device with metal pans and clear tubes that showed how gasoline fumes traveled. We saw it in a can at an upper level, and a spark in a lower level. They opened a little door in the upper and we watched the fumes (not the liquid, the fumes) tumble down the clear tube until it hit the spark, then FOOM! up the tube and it blew the lid off the upper can. That was about 2 drops of gas.

Then there was the time as a child I saw a house explode. Guy and his wife died of burns. Someone was cleaning tar off of clothes in the kitchen with gasoline, and someone went downstairs in the basement. The fumes traveled down the stairs and hit a pilot light or something and boom. At least that's how my dad explained it to me as I kept asking about it for a long time afterwards. I think I was somewhere between 5 and 7. Can't recall for sure.

seijirou · Feb 5, 2023

aczlan said:
1. Why do you have a gas can anywhere near a fire where someone could make such a mistake?
2. Why has he not been taught the basics of fire safety? (ie: never put gasoline on any fire, only diesel or used oil)

We have a fair number of large bonfires every year and there is never a gas can out there. Always a gallon jug of used oil, some hay (to stuff in the pile and pour the oil onto) and a propane torch to light it with.

Aaron Z

As I wrote in the post you're replying to, the whole problem arises from a lack of knowledge. So you're asking questions about why did a person do a thing they shouldn't do, from the lack of knowledge that I pointed out in the first place.

If you really want to ensure people must have the proper knowledge before they can do a thing, that means you legislate licensing and a required exam to get the license. That's your answer to #2 in particular, "he" hasn't been taught because we don't require to "you" have a license to buy gasoline, gasoline containers, or start bonfires. I don't want any of that. Do you want any of that?

Alternatively we can implement a very inexpensive, automatic, effective, and reliable feature that will dramatically improve outcomes when someone makes this mistake and learns it the hard way but the not necessarily deadly way.

Nobody is stomping on anybody's rights here. As I wrote, the EPA certainly gets plenty of things wrong but this isn't one of them.

seijirou · Feb 5, 2023

aczlan said:
I have a relative who's face is messed up because he put dumped the last of the gas from a can into the burn barrel, walked the can a 15-20' away, lit the barrel, walked back to the can, picked it up and the can blew up.
Apparently he hadn't capped the can, the fumes made a trail in the air that the fire was able to follow right into the can.
Would this screen have saved him from that? Probably, but much like the question of starting to smoke or chew tobacco, with all we know of the dangers of doing so, why would you risk it?

This is a perfect example of lack of knowledge. Why did your relative risk it? They didn't think they were risking it. They thought the 15-20' took all the risk away. They're not stupid, or lacking common sense or whatever, they just didn't have that specific knowledge about just how resilient fuel vapors can be even outside.